S2 8v No end low power!!!

[Alex Astall]

Hi, id like to know if there is anyway i can improve my low end power as i think all the mods to my car have made me loose bottom end power and id like more! Ive got allot of mods that should improve bhp but are all my mods pushing my power and torque up the rev range??? Any advice please! My car seems to be pretty much dead below about 4000rpm is this normal for a 1.6 8v rallye engine? :confused:

[mgzrjohn]

ahh the dreded question youve been thinking about asking ;) it was a bit of a pain not having much lower torque in your car when i had a drive but i surpose it made you want to DRIVE the good ole'Rallye to get somewhere, it did me. I surpose its down to the TU engine and its intial setup no? i mean: 97lbft@3500rpm isnt low in the first place is it! and the power, 103bhp@6200rpm nice and high up! its a Rallye remember, a one off, peugeot made this car what it is by making you really drive the car to its potential so you could say to everyone...'I Drive a rallye...' ;)
Problem is fuel economy is now Compromised due to high revs...Bummer. :(

[mgzrjohn]

PS nice driving today if you know what i mean ;) ;)

[rallye_matt]

I can't see from your mods what would have compromised your low end power?? You've basically got breathing mods with the addition of a superchip. Have you got a different cam too? I think maybe its down to the power delivery of the car!? If you're that worried get some NOS, like the turbo boys use to get over lag :) :p

[Patrick F]

Or just keep you foot nailed to the throttle and learn to love your local petrol station ;)

[Alex Astall]

i never dread asking any questions on here everyones so great! Thanks for the advice! Suppose i will just have to keep revs up and maybe wait for a 16v conversion??? will the 16v give me more low end power aswell as more at the higher revs??? Anyone else got any opinions???

ALX

[asnail99]

its the dimma filler cap that loosing you power..
:D

[rallye_matt]

Definitely go for the 16v! :D Suprised people haven't started going on about how the 8v low end power delivery is so much better than the 16v! Don't believe this if they say it!! Its just that the 16v has such punch after 4000rpm it makes lower revs seem a little slow! Its as good if not better than the 8v.

Anyway, just had a thought! Get rid of the K&N, put the standard air box on and put a k&n element in there instead. What you have at the moment won't be helping low end power.

[dynofiend]

Ditch the useless induction kit and try the original ECU chip, see how it goes after that.

[asnail99]

Ditch the useless induction kit and try the original ECU chip, see how it goes after that.


agreed..:D

[mgzrjohn]

yer the standard airbox should be better, is K&N the best replacement filter to use tho? :confused:

[dynofiend]

apparently so, yet im still of the opinion that it makes no real difference, and offers less filtration, despite tests carried out that show otherwise.

[Danny J]

Alex you've got very similar mods to me, apart from the 4-2-1 cos i haven't fitted mine yet. :o

Mine has similar issues with power lower down the rev range till i went front from the standard piperx induction kit upto the Viper which has a direct cold air feed. This seemed to maintain the power throughout the rev range even when the engine got hot.

I'm not saying rush out and buy a viper though! Personally i think cold air induction kits are slightly more effective than std ones :)

[dynofiend]

and for £200 it seems hardly worth it!

[Danny J]

I agree. I only got mine because i won some capital bonds through work, so it cost me sod all!

Personally if my car had a std airbox again i wouldn't put any induction kit on unless i could pickup a viper / BMC / K&N Gen2 for v.cheap. Once your engine heats up a normal kit just sucks in too much hot air & you lose power, hence alex's problem.

Thats my opinion anyway :p

Alex - maybe heat wrapping your manifold would help? And putting some kind of cold air feed near the k&n? Just a suggestion, not too costly :)

[mgzrjohn]

Being a close friend of Alex's(but not speaking for him) ;) we work on each others cars together and thought that the problem may be due to the Heat of the engine(Heat Soak) so all we could do was add a 60mil dia. cold air feed that goes right down to the front lefthand side, Still the problem is there. the engine isnt suffering bcoz of the heat, but becoz of the way it is setup, i geuss, Sumthing to do with cams is my geuss.

[Olly W]

a cold air feed may help a bit but the open induction kits will still be sucking in loads of realllly hot air no matter if you have two or three air feeds. i agree with the std one being much better or a proper enclosed kit

[Alex Astall]

i recently put up a post asking if anyone had a standard airbox and im currently trying to get hold of one so if anyone got one going then please pm me! Thanks for all the great advice and i was thinking of heat wraping the manifold but wasn't sure where the best place to get the wrap from and pricing! Any Info???

[chris106]

I'd agree with removing the K&N induction. When i bought my S1 it had one of these on and replacing it with the original gave much better response low down

[rallye_matt]

Sumthing to do with cams is my geuss.

What Cams do you have Alex? Can't see standard ones causing the problems. I bet you'd instantly notice the difference putting a standard air box back on. Try and source one asap :)

[asnail99]

those vipers are a load of shite...

[Danny J]

those vipers are a load of shite...

No they're not!

[dynofiend]

Its a filter in a box, no more, no less, what more do you expect! I made one out of a pudding bowl, some 70mm ducting and a K&N 57i kit for an experiment. I sincerely doubt that a viper would have been an improvement on this in any way other than looks.

[mgzrjohn]

i agree dynofiend, i was gunna do the same, but with a plantpot!! :D

[dynofiend]

hmm, nice idea, but wouldnt all the soil and roots get in the way :confused:

[mgzrjohn]

I was thinking that the O2 that plants make would give me an extra boost of performance, the nutrients in the soil would lube the engine increasing performance AGAIN and last but not least it would always smell nice under the bonnet... :D

[Danny J]

Sorry chaps but speaking from experience - and the fact that i've had both, i have to disagree with you :p

[dynofiend]

what youve had a home made enclosed filter and a viper? What did you make yours from?

[Danny J]

A halfords sponge, a rice krispies bowl & a rugby sock :p

What i meant was that the viper was better than the std piperx, thats all :)

[mgzrjohn]

But the viper cost about 20 times more than my plant pot!!

[mgzrjohn]

sorry 200 times! :)

[dynofiend]

Sorry chaps but speaking from experience - and the fact that i've had both, i have to disagree with you :p

Nah you didnt read what i had written properly. Neither myself or mgzrjohn were saying that the viper was no better than an open induction kit. In fact i am sure the viper is considerably better than an open induction kit.

What we were saying is that the viper is probably no better than a home made enclosed induction kit

[Danny J]

If you say so. Lets just hope piperx dont go out of business with your cunning design.

Make sure you keep your next project of a manifold made out of toilet paper tubes and sellotape underwraps, supersprint would be brickin it if they found out :p :rolleyes:

Only kiddin :p I think weve drifted off topic enough now so i'll shut my arguementitive gob & be quiet now ;)

[dynofiend]

lol im working on the manifold as we speak :p

In all seriousness though, i know its off topic n all, but why would a Viper be any better than a home made enclosed kit? Its just a box with an air filter in it. Theres no other cunning design involved. Plus its a universal fit, engine size, number of cylinders and air flow etc arent taken into consideration. Sure they use quality parts like carbon fibre and anodized aluminium, but even so, all of that is just cosmetic. As we all know silver would be the best colour to reflect underbonnet heat. I dont think piperx will be too worried about my design though, it didnt look very pretty :p And after all, when they have people who are willing to spend £200 on an air filter in a tube, why would they be worried.

Theres so much rubbish written on induction kits and the like, about how smoothing the air flow is better for power, which isnt true, as some turbulance can help. About mesh filters 'straightening the air flow' as it goes through. In all reality though, massive air filters really arent that important on low capacity normally aspirated engines.

[Alex Astall]

Totally agree 200 notes is too much for any induction kit imo! wish id got the standard airbox with my car wen i bought it! and 2 think about it the steelies too!!!

[mgzrjohn]

Finished my Home Made induction kit, Wraped it nicely in aluminium tape to reflect the heat works adream! The cost: £5 for aluminium wrap, £20 for K&N Filter, £2 for extra peice of hose and the Plastic ice bucket=free! overall £27 for a £200s worth of kit... Me VHappy.. :D :D

[philgs2]

pics?

[mgzrjohn]

its on my ZR but ill get a pic if i must?! :)

[rallye_matt]

Yeah come on, we've all got to see this masterpiece! :D

[Danny J]

and before and after power runs on the rollers! :p

[mgzrjohn]

Im working on the pictures, as for the R.Rd ill just have to use a Road Dyno thing ive got to get en idea. But ill tell you what ive lost that 16v sound for a more constant sound through the revs. im on nights by the way thats why i dont reply very often coz i use the work pc! ;)

[vtrPOWERHOUSE]

I agree that induction kits are shit, especially k&n's (open type) piper X vipers etc. The only type which i found any good are the green enclosed and the carbon fibre procomp unti (which i have now) :D Also wrap your manifold to keep heat in the engine at its minumum. Colder air makes your car respond better and feel faster! Maybe your cam timing is a little out too if it feels totally dead under 3k. Even my vtr is pokey low down. One more thing, i found once modded my car runs better on optimax petrol, it seems more responsive too somehow-i guess changing the air flow/exhaust gas flow by modding it alters the way your engine dives.

[Alex Astall]

getting my car rolling roaded on Sat so hopefully i will be able to see if my engine is running right from this! Looking forward to the weekend now!