[SOLVED] TB kits for Tu engines

[GiT]

who's the best then? reliability proven gains! in regards to management i'll be using DTA, and not sure on the enigne yet

basically i want the lightest engine available, so was thinkin s1 rallye as its alloy block.

but whats the weight difference between weight in a s2 and s1? i know its bout 30-40kgs between AX GT and AX GTi

but in regards to power output? i know they are similar as std but what about when modded?

my mate had an s1 and i was well impressed with the capabilities of it! 1/4 in 16.1 and it flew top end!

[jools]

You are better off doing a search for TB's as there are lots of long winded threads about this topic.

The lightest/largest block available will be the 1360cc alloy xsi block with steel liners. I have possible plans to use one of these blocks in the future and will try and see if I can use the 1600cc crank to increase the cc.

In a nut shell there are not that many decent kits for the 8v engine, all are a bit of a compremise mainly due to the limited space in the engine bay. There are more options for the 16v.

I am currently going down the route of getting TB's. I was going to use dcoe style ones but the port spacing is not quite right. I sold these and will be using singles on a custom manifold and setting the trumpets to breath through the scuttle panel once removed. I am in discussions with Jenvey for the best setup. I will be using 45mm tapered bodies allowing me to use longer trumpers.

[GiT]

i got a mate whose using tapered he swears by them altho he's on MBE management so think his words could be a little tainted! :p

i'll chop whaevr i need to to fit em, the bonnets going to be raised a fair bit too!

in my garage at the moment i've got a complet ax GTi iron block lump VTR bottom end with bent crank (boooo) and a 1360 ax gt alloy block engine catastrophic HG failure lol that was fun!

[Dave P]

Dont Jenvey do a TU 8v kit?

They list one on the "engine data list" but it says "fabricate manifold"

Chadl do a manifold, i believe Shenpar motorsport have them on the shelf. ;)

www.jenvey.co.uk

[GiT]

hmmmmm (rubs chin) does anyone have throttle boddies or are there reviews of different types etc?

cheers

[Danny J]

Sam_Rallye has Jenvey TB's on his 8v XSi Block, he really knows his stuff too.

There's a pic of his engine bay here.....

http://www.106rallye.co.uk/newforum/showthread.php?t=1921

Sandy309 really knows his shit too ;)

[sandy309]

Sam's got weber DCOE carb's, not TB's mate.

The chadil manifold is what Sam's using tho; i'm not too keen on it as it has very steeply angled tracts, whioch aren't a very good match for the ports or Bodies. My latest plan for my upcoming 8v is to use the head flange of a butchered (*runs and hides awaiting the wrath of the S1 sanctity mafia*) s1 inlet manifold and longer tracts to a DCOE flange with cut down DCOE carbs as Bodies. This hopefully will solve the problem. Cut down carbs offer a huge saving on real TB's and are just as good if done correctly, the beauty of this head is that you can use the OE injector rail and regulator, merely swapping the injectors for larger ones to cope with the increased airflow.

[Sam_Rallye]

There is very little cover for the 8v engine, as said chadil do a peu2956 inlet manifold but it does take rather sharp angles, but it was designed with the smaller 106 bay in mind, you can just about get the 118mm dcoe carb/tb's and the manifold in a 106 bay, one guy has done it and uses direct port nos too, nutter, but bear in mind this will be very close to the brake balance bar etc, something that isn't on the foreign cars (the manifold is from belgium remember). Chadil also used to do a kit car style pair of Direct To Head inlets but they no longer produce them as Jools found out when enquiring for a set. What seems to be gettng more and more popular is using motorbike throttle bodies as a cheap solution, the only downside is they are spigot mounting and won't look as tidy but it can be done, they are usually ~£50 from ebay and theres a decent range of sizes.

Theres some pics here -> http://dcoe.net/gallery/manifolds

[Danny J]

Sam's got weber DCOE carb's, not TB's mate.

Oops..... :o :o :o :o :o

Its just the Jenvey trumpets he has isn't it? Tired :( :o

[Sam_Rallye]

Yup 45x90mm jenvey trumpets ;) :)

[Danny J]

Ah, knew i'd read it somewhere (*doesn't feel as emabarassed now* :o :o :) )

[sandy309]

He definately "wants" TB's tho :D

Carbs sometimes sound better than TB's i find. It must be the sound of the fuel going in :p

[Sam_Rallye]

Its the sound of pounds falling from my wallet :)

I'd have loved tb's i was set on getting them a while back, but finances weren't up to it. Was going to use an S2/S1 8P ecu and get it remapped.

[Ian B]

anyone thoughtof getting throttle bodies for the s1 engine? with a cam or something and then a remap? i know if you put a 16v in and then throttlebody it u will have loads of power, but i wanna do something different. what would u think the power would be, cheers

[GiT]

anyone thoughtof getting throttle bodies for the s1 engine? with a cam or something and then a remap?

Yes me!

thats y i'm asking! :D :p

[dynofiend]

in a high state of tune i would reckon around 150bhp should be achievable from the 1.3, but then for only £500 more that could be 170bhp with a 16v engine instead.

[Sam_Rallye]

You are talking VERY high state of tune for that sort of figure, crap for the road.

[GiT]

i'm planning this engine for a track car but will be road legal (fingers crossed)

a lighter engine as possible and as lower cc as poss to get into a Lower RWYB class for the pod see i'm hoping to get the car to 500kgs inc engine - in a car thats 740kgs any way i can see 200kg coming out easy! and i've heard of a couple of track cars that weighed 500kg with engine in and cages! so thats a target to aim at - plus i've lost 2 stone snce the start of the year! -every little helps! :p :D

so 130bhp at the wheels would be cool (i'm getting quaife box wth diff n strtcut gears) 260bhp/ton will suit me fine! ;) i'm planning on building different engines in the future anyway so it'll only be a matter of time before i put a tuned 16valve lump in!

[Matthew H]

Just go 16valve you will love it , i do.

[Sam_Rallye]

Well theres not much to make lighter in an ax, its mostly plastic anyway. afaik quaife don't offer a straight cut gearset for the MA gearbox, only the semi helical one like i have. Are you going 16v then? I have 125.5@wheels from an 8v and it wasn't cheap!

[Sam_Rallye]

Yep, its good advice matt ;)

[GiT]

i dunno sam! rid the rear beam away then you got shot of 50+kgs straight away

dash out, sunroof windows! every little helps! halve the weight of most components like seats n panels - bumpers etc and you're looking at a featherwieght contender!

[dynofiend]

the s1 rallye is 820kg, not 740. Reducing it to 500kg would be nigh on impossible, i dont think it could be done whilst keeping the car road legal.

[RobLyon]

think hes talking of a s1 ax is he not?

[Sadako]

yeah he is talking ax, poss to get below 700kg, ax sport was something stupidly low at 680kg or lesd

[Dave P]

The AX is typically 100kg's lighter than the 106.

[jools]

500 from an ax is a big target, Not impossible but you get to a stage that it costs more money each kg you take out. You can take out the all of the non essential items in the car essentially stripping the car bare, and just having a CF bucket seat, cage and possibly stack dash, take out all the lights would be another way, then you remove the need for wiring, large fuse box, larger battery, but make the thing non road legal. You could be be looking at CF/kevlar doors, bonnet, boot, front wings bonnet, boot, bumpers etc etc for starters, taking every bit that is not needed to make the car go forwards.

That is relativly easy to lighten, then the heavy bits need attention, the rear beam could be re fabricated using billet alloy rather than cast metal and steel tubing; the front struts are heavy as well, the bare casting weigh 6.8kg each; these could be replaced with a bespoke alloy swivel (or even magnesium) and coil overs. The front wish bones could be fabricated as they are also very heavy.

By the time you have done all this you may as well space frame the thing with a thin walled big dia frame, cover it in a cf/kevlar body panels, then you can redesign the suspension completly. The only thing you need to keep is the bulk head and 'a' piller as it is some where to put the front screen in. a bag fuel tank will also keep weight down.

Ditch the whole peugeot engine idea and put something like a 1300cc bike engine, you get TB's as well, a light engine, that revs like stink in a light weight car. 200 bhp in a bike engine is possible and as it is only dragging around 500kg's you have a magic 400bhp/tonne.

Before you know it you have spent £???..+ but you could have an ax that is a genuine 500kg, or less.

just an idea

[Paul R]

Go mid engined if youre going down jools's route.....you could even put two in....If Z cars can do it to a mini then an paceframed Ax will be no prob

[GiT]

well we'll have to see what it weighs in at in the end then! as i said target! and i beleive its possible thats all the motivation i need! ;)

gonna be the prince naseem of the ax world this one!

[Crowder-Rallye]

i remember a tb'd cam'd polished and dta ecu'd rallye made 124 at fly not the best for ur money really. capacity is calling and 8 more valves ;)