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View Full Version : S2 Rallye 8v vs 16v


GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 01:52 PM
Ok on the look out for a rallye possibly as said to replace my turbo cinquecento

A bit worried really about the power drop from a 130-140ish cinq into a 100bhp Rallye (not to mention the torque loss...) so am quite tempted to look into a 16v rallye as in theory they shouldnt be any less reliable than a gti providing the conversion has been done properly :)

But what i was wondering is does the 16v lump affect the handling of the Rallye?

Not even sure if i would want a 16v instead of a 8v however in theory it would leave me with a much smaller power drop...

Heated debate to come i know but couldnt find anything on the forum :)

J Butler
24-05-2007, 02:08 PM
The 16v is slighter heavier. You shouldnt be bothered about the power drop, the fun factor is enough to put a smile on your face in my opinion anyway.

Tom W
24-05-2007, 02:11 PM
i would have thought that any engine under the bonnet would have been better handling than the cinq's handling.

The 106 is always praised for its handling so the 16v engine cant make handling too bad!

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 02:15 PM
i would have thought that any engine under the bonnet would have been better handling than the cinq's handling.

The 106 is always praised for its handling so the 16v engine cant make handling too bad!


No standard cinq though ;) not sure how it compares to the 106 yet mind :)

Maybe i am worrying too much about the power drop, but then again i've had the cinq a couple of years now and have gotten used to having the power there... will have to see about that ride out with babyalien either way anyway :)

darrenwm
24-05-2007, 02:16 PM
If anybody says a 16v ruins the handling then they're talking nonsense it's my opinion. The Gti and Rallye S2 handle the same. The only difference is in the feedback from PAS/nonPAS.

If you're worried about the quality of a conversion just get a GTi or VTS. They're both nicer and quicker.

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 02:22 PM
But then the GTi in my opinion doesnt have the character of the Rallye which is the appeal to me :) not to mention the Rallye stands out more, which would lessen the pain of coming from the attention craving cinq lol :)

To be honest i think i could live with a 8v.. But my spanner wielding tendancies may see me wanting to have a go at a 16v conversion, so may as well have got one already done :)

Ross Davis
24-05-2007, 02:32 PM
get a 16v rallye, wotn make no difference in the handling and you get more power

the 106 16v will be better thatn you current car as you have no lagg!! and you will hit corners faster and exit faster.
i had a little play with my mates 1.3 GT tubro (starlet) i have little mods (nothing done to the engine) and i pulled away from him at the lights and pulled again wehn both sitting at 30mph and going for it.
his starlet is ment to be 140bhp, yours will be fast mind as its much lighter :)

still end of get a 16v rallye. a 8v will be a big big difference to you, end of;)

Big Jazzle
24-05-2007, 02:35 PM
all this brake horse power nonsence makes me laugh, my tappy old 8v seems to effortlessly pull away from all these supposed4,000,0000 brake horse power renault 5 gtt lol
:s2:

darrenwm
24-05-2007, 02:36 PM
8vs are slow and boring. On a hot day like today my car just feels gutless and crap.

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 02:45 PM
all this brake horse power nonsence makes me laugh, my tappy old 8v seems to effortlessly pull away from all these supposed4,000,0000 brake horse power renault 5 gtt lol
:s2:
Spec:
Punto 1242 Bottom End
Fully Worked Head
Garrett T15 Turbo running 1 bar boost
Aquamist MF2 Running second green injector
Decompression plate taking compression to 8.2:1
Front mount Van Aaken Intercooler
Piper Vernier Pulley
Mocal Remote Oil Filter
Mocal 19 row Oil Cooler
2" bore downpipe from turbo with swappable cat/decat section
2" bore exhaust with a Jap Can on the end of it
40mm Throttle body (30mm standard)
Le Mans Grp A dumpvalve
Magnecors + Grade colder plugs
Fiat Stilo 1.4 16v 200mm flywheel & clutch kit
D1 Spec Fuel Pressure Regulator (~3 bar fuel pressure)
Escort RS2000 Fuel Pump

Probably more but i cant think of it right now, but well as they say when the flag drops the bs stops ;)

But still its not the point, its just been modified to the extent where its sacrificed some of its reliability :( hence looking at something producing similar power/grin factor whilst not being pushed right to its limit to achieve the power :(

darrenwm
24-05-2007, 02:48 PM
Spec:
Punto 1242 Bottom End
Fully Worked Head
Garrett T15 Turbo running 1 bar boost
Aquamist MF2 Running second green injector
Decompression plate taking compression to 8.2:1
Front mount Van Aaken Intercooler
Piper Vernier Pulley
Mocal Remote Oil Filter
Mocal 19 row Oil Cooler
2" bore downpipe from turbo with swappable cat/decat section
2" bore exhaust with a Jap Can on the end of it
40mm Throttle body (30mm standard)
Le Mans Grp A dumpvalve
Magnecors + Grade colder plugs
Fiat Stilo 1.4 16v 200mm flywheel & clutch kit
D1 Spec Fuel Pressure Regulator (~3 bar fuel pressure)
Escort RS2000 Fuel Pump

Probably more but i cant think of it right now, but well as they say when the flag drops the bs stops ;)

But still its not the point, its just been modified to the extent where its sacrificed some of its reliability :( hence looking at something producing similar power/grin factor whilst not being pushed right to its limit to achieve the power :(

Spec means nothing to me as I'm stupido. Do you have any pics? What's the power and weight figures?

Tom W
24-05-2007, 02:56 PM
I owned a punto gt with 174bhp, turbo techniques turbo, seb4.1 etc.

i tried my gti with just breathing mods against the punto and point to point 106 was much faster.

The punto may have more power but its only for 2-3k then back off boost.

This is the reason why i sold it as it would never touch my gti even tho it has 50bhp more!

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 03:02 PM
http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/1235/ghostcinq1.jpg

http://www.cento-rebels.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10091/Combe07Alexsbay.jpg

Thats the best i can do whilst at work all pics are on my computer at home lol :)

Few vids on youtube too if you search ghostwkd :) though most of them with old engine (1.1)

have to admit am a bit surprised by the gt vs 106 but then again remembering how people rave on about the 106's handling i guess its all in that :)

darrenwm
24-05-2007, 03:06 PM
Is the boot a different shade?

If you like the Cinquento styling have you considered a Lupo GTi? Similar shape!

Maybe find a GTi or VTS at a dealer and test drive to get an idea. Independents have always let me go out alone.

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Yeah its all faded differently :(, respray was on cards but had to get my own place short notice so respray funds were used as part of a deposit on a flat :(

Thinking of going to look at a gti at local pug dealer on monday just to get a feel :) unlikely to find a rallye in a pug garage to have a drive of though unfortunately lol :)

Considered Lupo gti but cant see myself in one, kinda want a bit more of a change if i do go away from the cinqs :)

Bonnie
24-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Spec:
Punto 1242 Bottom End
Fully Worked Head
Garrett T15 Turbo running 1 bar boost
Aquamist MF2 Running second green injector
Decompression plate taking compression to 8.2:1
Front mount Van Aaken Intercooler
Piper Vernier Pulley
Mocal Remote Oil Filter
Mocal 19 row Oil Cooler
2" bore downpipe from turbo with swappable cat/decat section
2" bore exhaust with a Jap Can on the end of it
40mm Throttle body (30mm standard)
Le Mans Grp A dumpvalve
Magnecors + Grade colder plugs
Fiat Stilo 1.4 16v 200mm flywheel & clutch kit
D1 Spec Fuel Pressure Regulator (~3 bar fuel pressure)
Escort RS2000 Fuel Pump

Probably more but i cant think of it right now, but well as they say when the flag drops the bs stops ;)

But still its not the point, its just been modified to the extent where its sacrificed some of its reliability :( hence looking at something producing similar power/grin factor whilst not being pushed right to its limit to achieve the power :(


Sounds nice but a cinquecento does nothing for me at all :heh:

Have a search there is endless amounts of 8v versus 16v threads on here

fredjudd
24-05-2007, 04:00 PM
Ok on the look out for a rallye possibly as said to replace my turbo cinquecento

A bit worried really about the power drop from a 130-140ish cinq into a 100bhp Rallye (not to mention the torque loss...) so am quite tempted to look into a 16v rallye as in theory they shouldnt be any less reliable than a gti providing the conversion has been done properly :)

But what i was wondering is does the 16v lump affect the handling of the Rallye?

Not even sure if i would want a 16v instead of a 8v however in theory it would leave me with a much smaller power drop...

Heated debate to come i know but couldnt find anything on the forum :)

I new I recognised your user name from FF, I used to own a black cheeky. With Tricker 40mm TB and Mckrick chip all that jazz.

A little off topic but is it your car I spy in the fast car this month?

Deffo get a 16v, be it a rallye or just a GTi. Then when you get bored of breathing mods get some 708's in there and a tidy remap and see 157 bhp like everyone else with that set up.

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 06:41 PM
lol i recognise your username too :cool: :D

Yup its mine in fastcar this month along with mates one :)

Got flat as number one priority so whatever i buy i wont do much more to it except use what i've got left of my budget :) however if i find a decent nick 16v rallye which takes up my budget i think i may be sold ;) lol

James106xsi
24-05-2007, 08:29 PM
Another day, another 8v bashing thread :lol::rolleyes:

From the look of your Fiat it seems like you're not shy on spuking money on an engine in which case pile some money into the 8v. From experincing both 8vs and 16vs with a fair bit of work done to them the 8v is by far the cooler engine with a more useable power delivery and a nicer noise. And theres something satisfying about having a rapid 8v i think.

If you're on a budget then go for the 16v as its cheap power, although having said that theres a thread somewhere where Sandy totalled up the costs of going all out spec wise with a 16v and it turned out more expensive than if you were to do the same to the 8v.

To put it into perspective, the other day my near standard 1.6 8v with just a 421 manifold and pugsport was closing in on a golf vr6 in 2nd and 3rd quite well and by 4th, where you'd expect the golf to ease away due to its larger engine, I just stuck right up behind it. This was going up a rather long and steep gradient too, where you'd expect the golf's larger engine and thus torque and grunt to be a real advantage, and I had a fat passenger too! OK so the golf weighs the about the same as the moon but it has a full 1200cc more and three times as many valves, which I think shows that the 8v can certainly punch above its weight and shoulnd't be so quickly written off in favour of a 16v conversion :)

Dave_C
24-05-2007, 11:12 PM
But then James, put your typewriter against a meaty 16V XSi like mine and I'll pull away from anything!

Muhahaha!

I cant comment on what the 8V is like, but a rallye is a rallye. They're cool as fuck. But a fast rallye (16v) is much cooler than a slow rallye ;)

GhostWKD
24-05-2007, 11:22 PM
The 8v is by no means written off, however i am after the most bang i can get for my buck so to speak... after the initial purchase i wont have much left for niceties and with no scope for them in the near future either due to flat commitments etc so ideally i'd want something quick as my initial purchase... so a valver probably best option, though i'd give a damn good look to a 8v with few bits like manifold pugsport etc :)

Tom W
25-05-2007, 10:03 AM
Another day, another 8v bashing thread :lol::rolleyes:


To put it into perspective, the other day my near standard 1.6 8v with just a 421 manifold and pugsport was closing in on a golf vr6 in 2nd and 3rd quite well and by 4th, where you'd expect the golf to ease away due to its larger engine, I just stuck right up behind it. This was going up a rather long and steep gradient too, where you'd expect the golf's larger engine and thus torque and grunt to be a real advantage, and I had a fat passenger too! OK so the golf weighs the about the same as the moon but it has a full 1200cc more and three times as many valves, which I think shows that the 8v can certainly punch above its weight and shoulnd't be so quickly written off in favour of a 16v conversion :)


16v pull away from these hippo's tho

garvey
25-05-2007, 04:28 PM
8v all the way, havn't driven a 16v, butthe 8v sounds more hardcore with the tappy engine

Walker
13-06-2007, 06:57 PM
can anyone put up a link to the post by sandy about the cost and spec for the 8v and 16v been lookin 4 the last 2 nights but cant seem to find it prob lookin in the place
cheers dan

GhostWKD
13-06-2007, 07:28 PM
awww my old thread :D

My Rallye will stay 8v btw just incase anyone was wondering :D :p

ctruman
14-06-2007, 05:21 PM
ive got a 8v love it its got 120bhp and 117 torque couldnt wish for more powers there straight away rallye's all the way for me:steer: :s2:

Russ_16v
14-06-2007, 06:16 PM
interesting thread,i was thinking the same about the differences-what they would be like day to day? iv always thought that a 16v is nice but surely if u wanted a 16v 106 why not buy a gti in the 1st place,8v rallyes seem quite nice lol


btw no offence intended to any valvers out there!