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View Full Version : Fernando is faster than you......


indigorallye
26-07-2010, 07:51 AM
What a crock of shit.

Aleksandr
26-07-2010, 07:55 AM
Yup, team orders are nothing new but Ferrari really are fucking idiots to make it that obvious. Should have let them fight it out especially considering the significance of the weekend (one year almost to the day since Massa's near fatal accident).

Alonso is an awesome driver on his day but a deeply flawed character. Plus he always seem to be at the centre of a scandal. McLaren and the Ferrari technical information, Renault and the Singapore GP and now this.

Forgot to add Stefano is a wuss for making Rob Smedley tell Felipe and not manning up and doing it himself.

jamesuk87
26-07-2010, 08:46 AM
€100,000 fine and they have to go before the board for an ass whooping. They arnt detesting it :)

Good on rob smedley for making it so blatant. Could tell he wanted something to be kicked up about it!

thorney_1988
26-07-2010, 09:42 AM
what a load of shite!!

i mean really, if 2002 wasnt enough they have to go and re-create it once again. felt bad for massa yesterday exspecially as he has to stand there and say that alonso past him fair and square, what a load of olld shit!!

this is where mclaren and red bull shine through, letting there drivers race each other, none of this team orders crap. we'll see what happens at hungary this weekend should be quite interesting as imo mclaren will be back on the pace after sorting downforce issues.

"umm fernando is quicker than you" can you just confirm you got that message!! haha smedley really was taking the piss out off dominicalli there, and then to go on and say well done and sorry, top work really was. it becoming aparent who the no.1 driver is there aswell now, lets just hope mclaren stay well clear of this rubbish.

1. hamilton
2. button

^ no team orders or in house fights here and look what happens, says it all really!!

Gareth Y
26-07-2010, 10:50 AM
I dont know what everybody is moaning about. It made sense to move alsono in front of massa, massa has no chance in the driver standings....so ferrari gave alsono the best chance. It was hardly like they were racing each other anyway just following each other. No other teams in sight.

Be better for the season for alsono, button, hamilton, vettel and webber to fight it to the death who all have a good chance of winning the championship then let massa win who is no where in the standings. Alsono will take the fight to the other teams rather than massa who is inconsistent with his performances!!!

Come on Alsono!!!:p:p

thorney_1988
26-07-2010, 11:15 AM
if alonso wins the title it will be a joke, his attitude alone makes me want him to crash and burn (metaforically speaking of course).

tbh, hamilton should win this year just for his shear consistent results, even though the mclaren hasnt been on the pace in the last 3 races. people can say what they like team orders happen all the time but ferrari make it all to blantent, like in 2007 at brazil last race, massa had to do the same to raikkenen! if he hadnt of done that hamilton would of won the title a year earlier.

they just make things far to blantant,

JAMason
26-07-2010, 11:17 AM
I dont agree with that at all Gareth, i see what your saying, but Massa should still be able to win races regardless, he was in the lead, if Alsono wanted it he should have fort for it, its what racing is all about, competition!

indigorallye
26-07-2010, 01:39 PM
That farce yesterday denied us a thrilling end. Vetel was catching Alonso which would have given us a good battle.
Team orders have no place in F1. They should ban two way communications.

Big Jazzle
26-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I agree, team orders suck-allways have!

some will argue it was for the greater good in terms of driver standings etc, i say let them race!

Eddie Jordan was hilarious on the bbc after race commentary, he wanted blood lol!

Aleksandr
26-07-2010, 01:50 PM
That farce yesterday denied us a thrilling end. Vetel was catching Alonso which would have given us a good battle.
Team orders have no place in F1. They should ban two way communications.

Nice idea but it wil never work, they'll just discuss it before the race. Team orders have always been a part of F1, but the nonsensical and pointless ones have always come from Ferrari. Sure let Alonso through later in the championship, there was no point doing it now.

indigorallye
26-07-2010, 02:24 PM
It boils my blood. I feel sorry for those that put a wager on, and then lose because of some team manager tampering with the results.
I hope the FIA dock them points, there is no deterrent otherwise.
And as far as the driver's championship goes, how can Massa get close if he has to let Alonso through?
We are only just half way through the season FFS.

Let them race, that's what we want, that's what we pay to see.

Harv
26-07-2010, 03:50 PM
I agree totally indigo - we want, and pay to see, the best drivers (or some of) fighting it out on track wherever possible. We were robbed of a possibly titanic battle between the 3 cars at the front, which is most annoying.

At this point in the season we can't know who will win, and with so many points available yet, causing such massive controversy (not to mention demotivating a driver who has proved his dedication to Ferrari countless times) seems absolutely mindboggling.

Gareth Y
26-07-2010, 05:49 PM
It happens all the time.... Mclaren...turn your engines down and hold places when Hamilton was under pressure from button. I can't see anything wrong with supporting the strongest driver which clearly alsono is at this time. Mclaren and red bull drivers are very close, so they are fighting it out. No teams drive flat out start to finish...it's always been like this always will!!

It happens all the time.... Mclaren...turn your engines down and hold places when Hamilton was under pressure from button. I can't see anything wrong with supporting the strongest driver which clearly alsono is at this time. Mclaren and red bull drivers are very close, so they are fighting it out. No teams drive flat out start to finish...it's always been like this always will!!

indigorallye
26-07-2010, 05:54 PM
No one is denying team orders exist.
It is the blatant manipulation of a result which sticks in the throat.

We know other teams ask drivers to hold stations, I don't agree with it but I accept it. What I don't like is when a less worthy driver is gifted a win.

Aleksandr
26-07-2010, 05:59 PM
Agreed, what disappointed me was how obvious they made it. Obviously part of that was due to Rob Smedley and Felipe not being happy with it, but to manipulate results at the half way stage like that really pisses me off.

Gus
26-07-2010, 10:10 PM
Total load of bull, Massa must feel like shit.

dynofiend
27-07-2010, 07:05 AM
Of course I can understand why a team favours one driver above the other, and might want one driver to move over for the other. The fact remains that it is illegal by FIA rules.

Make the cars start on a full fuel load, give them one speed/performance limiter the driver can select, for the pitlane, only. It might not stop teams from interfering in a race result, but it will make it alot harder for them to do it without being busted.

I thought Smedley was very clever and brave to do what he did, making it so obivous to the world that a team order had been given knowing that it might cost him, and his team in the long run. Doing it has brought team orders back in the spotlight, and that can only be a good thing.

Aleksandr
27-07-2010, 07:49 AM
I was thinking the same about fuel Dyno but all they would do in short shift instead. I'd like to see the cars race to the finish rather than to 2/3rds race distance.

indigorallye
27-07-2010, 07:57 AM
The position that Ferrari were in was un-enviable to a certain extent.
Their cars were P1 & P2 so that is an excellent result for the team.
However, when the WDC is brought in to the equation it throws up all kinds of quandries.
What if Alonso keeps pushing and crashes? What if Massa tries to get away and crashes? What if they crash into each other?
The solution when refuelling was in play was that the drivers were allowed to race to the final pit stop, and then hold stations (-generally speaking!). That's not the case now, if the team need to switch their drivers round then they are going to have to come up with something a little more subtle. A blatant team order, as what was handed out on sunday is unacceptable, as dictated by the rules.
It's a shame that we are having this discussion, it could have been so different, and probably for the better as far as racing goes.

If a team is going to favour one driver over the other then we should be told before hand.
We should know if they are going to switch them if they are in the 'wrong order.'
There is no problem then, we know what to expect.

I suppose it is a bit like a rally driver going slow on a gravel stage so that he is not the first car to set off and clean the roads(?)

Just don't bet on Massa to beat Alonso in a Ferrari 1-2.

dynofiend
27-07-2010, 09:09 AM
Aleksander- We have to remember that whilst the drivers are under contract, they are still competetive beasts, and would be far less likely to just pull over and let their teammate through if there were no 'slow' fuel maps. It would just make it harder for the teams to tell drivers to move out of the way. They might short shift to save fuel, but that is the drivers making the choice, rather than forcing them into letting people through by electronic handcuffs.

Mike - Your posits about Massa and Alonso crashing are moot. Any driver chasing any car for position risks crashing. The WDC is about who is the fastest driver in the fastest car. Not who is the preferred driver in the fastest car :( The fans know this and will hound any teams that seem to favour drivers unfairly. Schumi and Barrichello are a perfect example, so are Webber and Vettel this year. The slightest sniff of team orders and the fans and media cry foul, and thats how it should be!

indigorallye
27-07-2010, 10:27 AM
They are not moot. Ferrari would lose all their points.

Bean0
27-07-2010, 12:13 PM
They are not moot. Ferrari would lose all their points.

If they are found guilty of breaching 151c (Lying to Stewards), then they will lose them anyway, same as McLaren in 2007.

indigorallye
27-07-2010, 02:10 PM
McLaren didn't lose their points, they were kicked out of the Constructors Championship, and rightly so.

Aleksandr
27-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Aleksander- We have to remember that whilst the drivers are under contract, they are still competetive beasts, and would be far less likely to just pull over and let their teammate through if there were no 'slow' fuel maps. It would just make it harder for the teams to tell drivers to move out of the way. They might short shift to save fuel, but that is the drivers making the choice, rather than forcing them into letting people through by electronic handcuffs.


Ahhh I see, i was thinking of the fuel issue in terms of I want to see all the cars race for the whole race. But yes doing that would get rid of the fuel saving as a team order in disguise.

Bean0
27-07-2010, 02:24 PM
McLaren didn't lose their points, they were kicked out of the Constructors Championship, and rightly so.

My mistake, 2009.

Decision


3.1 The WMSC finds Vodafone McLaren Mercedes in breach of Article 151(c) ISC in relation to each of the five counts identified in the FIA’s summons to Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, reproduced at 1.18 (a) to (e) above.

3.2 Pursuant to Article 151(c) ISC and 152 ISC, seventh paragraph, the WMSC therefore replaces the sanction imposed by Decision No. 76 of the Stewards with the following:


(a) the exclusion of the driver Lewis Hamilton and the competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes from the race classification for the 2009 Australian Grand Prix; and


(b) the suspension of the competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes from three rounds of the FIA Formula One World Championship.


Exceptionally, and in light in part of the Mitigating Factors (including the open and honest way in which the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team Principal addressed the WMSC and the change in culture which he made clear had taken place), penalty (b) shall be suspended for twelve months from the date of this Decision. In the event that, during the period of suspension of penalty (b), either: (i) further facts emerge that are relevant to the WMSC’s assessment of the gravity of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes’ breach; or (ii) Vodafone McLaren Mercedes commits a further breach of Article 151(c), the WMSC may implement penalty (b) in relation to the breach set out in this Decision.

indigorallye
27-07-2010, 03:31 PM
I was just being pedantic, but gold star for god research!!!!

dynofiend
28-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Sorry Mike, what I meant was, that a Ferrari crashing into another Ferrari because the leading one wont move over, has a similar risk of an accident occuring, to a Ferrari crashing into any other car infront. Yes there are more points involved if both cars are on the same team, but that, is racing, and from my point of view, is not a problem. The only hightened risk of an accident occuring would come if the Ferrari behind, assumed that the one infront was under team orders to move over, and then it didnt!

indigorallye
28-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Similar to Turkey?

airconditionednightmare
28-07-2010, 03:21 PM
What a crock of shit.

f1 always has been, hence why i stopped watching a long time ago:rolleyes:

dynofiend
30-07-2010, 10:43 PM
Similar to Turkey?

Exactly. That crash happened when Vettel assumed that Webber was just going to give him his place via disguised team orders. If there had been no disguised team orders, Vettel would not have made that assumption, and the crash would not have happened :D