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-   -   Fitting a 1.3 rallye engine and gearbox into a 1.4 AX GT mono point injection. (http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/showthread.php?t=95601)

micheldeman 04-06-2018 07:22 AM

Fitting a 1.3 rallye engine and gearbox into a 1.4 AX GT mono point injection.
 
I am thinking of fitting my spare 1.3 rallye engine with 1.3 inlet and gearbox into my AX 1.4 GT, which has only 75HP with mono point injection.
Apart from wiring, this wouldn't be a difficult modification I think.

And with 100HP and only 720KG's even faster and more fun than a S1 rallye:)

I need to use the 1.3 ECU and use the 1.3 wiring loom obviously which I have both spare too. Just not sure about other wiring like to dash board meters etc. Has anyone done this swap before?

Are the engine and gearbox mounting points the same?

I suggest I would swap to the wishbones and ARB from a 106 GTI or rallye and upgrade the front dampers and springs and dampers at the rear at the same time?

thanks

some pics of the car that I just bought.

https://myalbum.com/photo/igpDAc5l1v9R/360.jpg

https://myalbum.com/photo/AlYqRlIgye7c/360.jpg

MHR1294 05-06-2018 04:58 PM

Ohh a mk2 AX.

Well in that case it's exactly the same as an S1 106, all mounting points identical for engine and suspension if memory serves me correctly.

I think even the dashboard wiring is the same last time I looked at a diagram. So an early S1 106 dash will work directly with the AX wiring loom, as will the 1.3 engine loom.

micheldeman 05-06-2018 05:10 PM

Thanks for your reply. It's a mk1 AX, year of manufacturing is 1989. It has the orange blinking lights at the front.

It doesn't have the round connector like my 106 s1 rallye where the engine loom goes into the wing.

So, probably not just plug and play?

MHR1294 06-06-2018 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micheldeman (Post 875442)
Thanks for your reply. It's a mk1 AX, year of manufacturing is 1989. It has the orange blinking lights at the front.

It doesn't have the round connector like my 106 s1 rallye where the engine loom goes into the wing.

So, probably not just plug and play?

My mistake I never even noticed the orange indicators etc! That's what I get for not reading your post properly! :D

The wiring at the dashboard is still the same but you'll need to do some loom splicing at the chassis plug.

micheldeman 07-06-2018 06:44 AM

The s1 rallye has a combined oil level and temperature meter on the dash. On the dash of the AX, there's an oil level indicator (light only), but not an oil temperature meter. That's something to remark.

https://myalbum.com/photo/fw67VqyjfmdD/360.jpg


ECU and plug are different to the ECU of a s1 rallye.

https://myalbum.com/photo/L9wvg7q4MmKL/360.jpg

However, the AX GTI has multipoint injection and a coil pack ignition and therefore more like an S1 rallye. Checking some pics on the internet shows that the ECU plug of a AX gti looks the same, although it's a bosch ECU and not a magneti marelli, but pin wise maybe compatible, or at least adaptable to a S1 ECU plug. It may be worth sourcing a GTI wiring loom and adapt that one to the S1 1.3 engine and S1 inlet.

Here's a link to youtube of someone who has fitted a s1 rallye inlet on a AX GTI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMZrbNd5H1s

Still need to check the dash and meters as you can see on that video that the GTI dash layout differs from the AX GT one that I have.

welshpug 07-06-2018 08:26 AM

youll need to splice in tge plug from the AX onto the rallye loom, pretty straightforward really, buzz back from each plug on the loom to each wire in the main loom olug.

specifically to make it run you need very few wires connected, one is main live to double relay, 2nd is switched ignition live, starter solenoid wire, fuel pump, and earth the loom.

wiring diagrams will help but not absolutely necessary.

micheldeman 07-06-2018 10:03 AM

Ok, thanks,

so if I understand you correctly: install the rallye ECU and rallye loom as is but keep and splice only those wires of the AX ECU plug onto the rallye ECU plug for the functions like those you mentioned above?

I have a 106 haynes manual and the AX haynes manual is on the way. So will have a closer look at the diagrams and see for which wires and functions I need to splice the AX loom/ecu plug onto the rallye loom/ecu plug.

Cool

micheldeman 10-06-2018 09:52 AM

What TU engine is 1FSON?
This is what the aluminium plate says that's riveted to the engine block.

I found it, there was another small plate just in front of the other one covered in oil and dirt which says KDZ.

welshpug 10-06-2018 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micheldeman (Post 875446)
Ok, thanks,

so if I understand you correctly: install the rallye ECU and rallye loom as is but keep and splice only those wires of the AX ECU plug onto the rallye ECU plug for the functions like those you mentioned above?

that is the minimum to get it running, the rest is auxillary, i.e gauges/warning lights

micheldeman 25-07-2018 05:20 PM

Does anyone know a proven setup for the suspension of my AX GT?
I am thinking of lowering all round with Bilstein dampers, but what front lowering springs and torsion- and anti-roll bar thickness are good. I am also thinking of baker top mounts to set some camber and caster.
Are B6 good enough?

Rallyeax 22-08-2018 12:13 AM

Wiring isn't too bad what engine plug has the ax got?

Are you sure it's an injection ax gt you have?
As they are rare as hens teath. Most were cars.

Suspension wise anything b6 b8 or group N will do the job.
The arb from 106 or saxo do not work as they hit the exhaust.

micheldeman 22-08-2018 07:35 AM

After 1988 or 1989, due to emission regulations, the carburettor version wasn't available anymore. Citroen fitted a monopoint injection system, delivering 75HP only unfortunately.
I have found that only the series 2 have mounting points for both types of ARBs. Series one only for the flat type of wishbones were the ARB is fitted directly onto the wishbone without having drop links. So, it looks like I am sticked the flat type wishbone anyway.
I was thinking of using B6 or B8 dampers and some good quality 2,5cm lowering springs.

Engine wise, the current engine runs very fine, apart from the valve stem seals, which I have renewed already and due to the leight weight of the car, it's not bad that all. The gearbox bearings however are gone, so I have already bought a revision set for it including new synchro rings and clutch lever teflon bushes.

I also have bought everything you can think of to renew the front like new wheel bearings, disks, pads, new clutch and pressure plate, release bearing, new wishbones, top mounts, steering tie rod ends and inner tie rods, , ARB mounting rubbers, engine and gearbox mounts, etc, etc. All standard stuff.

I only need to do a little welding at the inner wheel arches before I start.

Most probably a winter project :)

Rallyeax 22-08-2018 09:16 PM

Ah your in the Netherlands... maybe the rules were different there but in the uk the spi gt were only in mk2 form just before the ax gti which was only in mk2 form was released in the uk... around 91/2 iirc

I assume you have the mk1 ax then if you cannot fit the saxo arbs.
Being spi you should have the pump wiring all fitted which makes the loom conversion easier.
You will need to get an mpi pump but atleast you don't need to change the tank!

If you need pin out info for the ax looms head over to ax forum http://www.axoc.co.uk/phpBB3/ , or drop me a pm.

micheldeman 22-08-2018 09:38 PM

OK thanks, especially the info about mpi fuel pump. What's the difference with the spi pump?
Thanks again

Rallyeax 22-08-2018 09:55 PM

Flow rate on the MPI is higher than the SPI at higher rpm.
Remember the spi pump only feeds 1 injector while the mpi feed 4.
Not changing means a lean mix at hight rpm and top end.
Any saxo 106 mpi pump will do and can be rebuilt into the ax housing... unless you can find an ax gti pump.

micheldeman 23-08-2018 04:04 PM

Sounds logical, thanks.


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