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Suspension, Handling & Brakes Suspension set ups, uprated brakes

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Old 27-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #1
Markr
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Phase 1 & 2 Shell Diffrences

Hi all, been restoring a phase 1 106 XT, well i say restoring i havn't seen it in 2years and i want to my teeth back into it.

Ive had many saxos, VTR's, VTS's, phase 2 gti's, phase 1 XSI's allsorts over the years but this was about 10 years ago and i cannot remember if there are any actually chassis differences between phase1 and 2 106 bare shells...

I am debating on getting a tidy phase 2 shell (still readily available) and making it a phase 1 but wanted to know the differences if any to the actual chassis structure and make up.

If someone can let me know itd be great for me as i cant find this information anywhere.
Or does anyone know if there are any new phase 1 chassis for purchase anywhere anymore, i remember someone on 106owners years ago got one from somewhere, but as that site now appears to be down i'm struggling to find him too.

Thanks
Mark
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Old 27-12-2017, 10:33 AM   #2
welshpug
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Phase1 tend to fare off better against corrosion, so you're best checking what yours needs before condemning it.

I don't think there are any significant differences, just lots of small details.
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Old 27-12-2017, 11:09 AM   #3
Markr
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really.... i would have thought it's be the complete other way round. Mine could be repairable i have all the stiffening panels and various bits to weld into it, just if i could get a tidier one it would save me a load of effort and cut-brushing, stonechipping etc...

Are the slam panels the same around the headlight area on a p1 and p2 models do you know? this is the only difference i can think off....
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Old 27-12-2017, 07:37 PM   #4
MHR1294
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There's no definitive answer for corrosion, poor quality control from the factory is what determines a rotten one from a good one. I scrapped a 2001 S2 shell with 154,000 miles on it last year and it only had rust on the front inner wings. since I stripped it to a bare shell before scrapping, I know that was the only area which had rust - in contrast my S1 Rallye with only 97k on the clock has had a whole new boot floor, front wings, parts of the chassis legs, drivers and passenger side floor all welded in with new metal!


106owners is gone for good now, the site was shut and nothing was backed up.

The slam panels are swappable, the bolts just go in from the other side at the front.

The tailgates mount differently, on an S1 the whole assembly bolts into the roof, on an S2 the hinge is riveted in the same place with bolts onto the tailgate. I suspect if you removed the hinge off the S2 shell, the S1 tailgate and hinges would bolts right in although I've never tried this in person.

The bulkhead has some differences around the pedal box. non power steering models have a slightly smaller opening if memory serves me correctly. I'm sure the studs are in the same place though so a non PAS S1 pedal box and steering column with rack should fit an S2 shell with no issues, there might just be a bit of a gap!

Same goes for the brake servo rod/brace/pipe which goes between the master cylinder and the pedal box, on an S2 it's an inch shorter. That had me scratching my head for quite a while before I figured it out!

Upper engine mount may be different, I think you can still fit the S1 mount with no issues though.

Then there's fitting the whole wiring looms. On an S1 it is attached to the dashboard and it's a total pig to fit the dash - along with the heater matrix! and the mounts for the big square plug and the grommet won't be on an S2 shell. the S2 shell won't have the 2 studs either side of the pedal box for the steering column braces either.


Conclusion:It's probably less work to just fix your XT, than try to transfer it all over to an S2 shell.

Also that's technically "ringing" and it's impossible in the UK to keep the original registration legally with a second hand shell, a new unstamped shell will be almost impossible to find in RHD these days, I am sure the thread you're thinking of is/was nearly 10 years old.

My personal feeling is that restoring is far more rewarding than swapping onto a new shell. that's defeatist!
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #5
Cris B
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The state of the car will depend how it's been looked after and the conditions it's been driven in. At the age these cars are now and the number of owners some have had it's no real surprise that some are worse off than others. There are still phase 1 106s coming up for sale, many of them are base models or diesels for less than 500. Worth going to see a few locally and see if the shells you are looking at are better condition than yours.

Why don't you start a build thread? It's a good way to get feedback and keep motivated with the build.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:43 PM   #6
Markr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHR1294 View Post
There's no definitive answer for corrosion, poor quality control from the factory is what determines a rotten one from a good one. I scrapped a 2001 S2 shell with 154,000 miles on it last year and it only had rust on the front inner wings. since I stripped it to a bare shell before scrapping, I know that was the only area which had rust - in contrast my S1 Rallye with only 97k on the clock has had a whole new boot floor, front wings, parts of the chassis legs, drivers and passenger side floor all welded in with new metal!


106owners is gone for good now, the site was shut and nothing was backed up.

The slam panels are swappable, the bolts just go in from the other side at the front.

The tailgates mount differently, on an S1 the whole assembly bolts into the roof, on an S2 the hinge is riveted in the same place with bolts onto the tailgate. I suspect if you removed the hinge off the S2 shell, the S1 tailgate and hinges would bolts right in although I've never tried this in person.

The bulkhead has some differences around the pedal box. non power steering models have a slightly smaller opening if memory serves me correctly. I'm sure the studs are in the same place though so a non PAS S1 pedal box and steering column with rack should fit an S2 shell with no issues, there might just be a bit of a gap!

Same goes for the brake servo rod/brace/pipe which goes between the master cylinder and the pedal box, on an S2 it's an inch shorter. That had me scratching my head for quite a while before I figured it out!

Upper engine mount may be different, I think you can still fit the S1 mount with no issues though.

Then there's fitting the whole wiring looms. On an S1 it is attached to the dashboard and it's a total pig to fit the dash - along with the heater matrix! and the mounts for the big square plug and the grommet won't be on an S2 shell. the S2 shell won't have the 2 studs either side of the pedal box for the steering column braces either.


Conclusion:It's probably less work to just fix your XT, than try to transfer it all over to an S2 shell.

Also that's technically "ringing" and it's impossible in the UK to keep the original registration legally with a second hand shell, a new unstamped shell will be almost impossible to find in RHD these days, I am sure the thread you're thinking of is/was nearly 10 years old.

My personal feeling is that restoring is far more rewarding than swapping onto a new shell. that's defeatist!
Thank you so much for a really informative post. Yeah s1 dashboards are a nightmare i remember years ago removing one, the series 2 way is much nicer!! Upper engine mount cradles definitely are but i have a s2 GTI one welded in as this used to have a 16v throttle bodied engine in.

I really should restore it, its been in the family since brand new my gran, mum, auntie and i learnt to drive in it. just everytime i look at it i think eughhh all that welding then close the doors again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris B View Post
The state of the car will depend how it's been looked after and the conditions it's been driven in. At the age these cars are now and the number of owners some have had it's no real surprise that some are worse off than others. There are still phase 1 106s coming up for sale, many of them are base models or diesels for less than 500. Worth going to see a few locally and see if the shells you are looking at are better condition than yours.

Why don't you start a build thread? It's a good way to get feedback and keep motivated with the build.
I think i will have too keep eyes open for one. locally down here in the ass end of no were (as far south Cornwall as you can get practically) theirs none about that havn't been nobed about with or not total dogs. Yeah i really should do a build thread tbh i always say i will and never see it through!
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