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16v Rallye Conversions All you need to know about this very popular engine conversion

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Old 04-06-2007, 08:58 PM   #51
James NL
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I have a question about the 206 tu5jp4.

Is this a easy fit so you dont have to modifie de brackets for the engine mount.
The wirering wil not be the problem only fitting the engine in the engine bay of the 106 rallye.

greetz james
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Old 25-10-2007, 10:55 PM   #52
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so what is the conclusion? is it actually worth fitting the 206/c2 1.6 engine? as im thinking of going 16 valve and i can get the 206 1.6 engine cheap

or would putting the 106 gti engine in be a better bet?

alex
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Old 26-10-2007, 11:54 PM   #53
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there 2 on ebay mate going for 125...
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Old 27-10-2007, 02:57 PM   #54
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if you're gonna buy the jp4 make sure its had the modified valves fitted as the originals, upto about 2004, stick in the guides when cold and give a right misfire, poor starting, non starting and massive headaches when you're swapping electrics to find the cure.
sticky lifters are fairly common too.

any MA box should bolt up to it ok, the only problem being the exhaust mountings are slightly different as mentioned already i think.

be intrested to see some power and torque figures when modded with hot cams etc, as in standard form its a bit flat from the bottom end.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:25 PM   #55
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very interesting thread, i have the engine out of 206 in my rallye altough it does not work properly yet. Maybe someone can help, im pretty sure it has gti bottom end as there is no oil filter extension, gti loom inlet and management, rallye gearbox. I bought it as a non runner and a friend who is mechanic sorted the problem (broken fpr). It starts and runs but there is a knocking noise that worsens when you give it some gas.

I previously posted and was advised to check oil was getting to valves. My friend has worked in the trade for 40 years and is sure it is not that. Going on what has been discused here im guessing there is some compatability issues? Would be good to know before we take it anyfurther.
I have made best of this thread but im no mechanic so excuse me if i have said anything stupid.
Cheers.
Luke.

its the 04 version, the whole thing is jp4 not gti bottom end

Last edited by LukeW12; 03-03-2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 05-03-2008, 05:40 PM   #56
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can you post a sound file?
It'll make it easier to narrow it down.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:51 AM   #57
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mine was rolling roaded last weekend

tu5jp4 with saxo inlet etc
k+n panel filter
gmc 4-1 manifold
scorpion exhaust (ax)


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Old 08-03-2008, 12:04 PM   #58
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Few questions:

*is there alot of work wiring these up correctly for an Xsi?

*do i still have to modify the engine mounting bracket?

*is that graph above any good? the drop off in the torque graph scares me?

* 105bhp from 16v above...Xsi on paper puts that out in standard form??????(albeit when it 1st rolled off the line)

*why would you use the Saxo inlet?

*would a 206 16v, be a good base to start from in standard form, then be able to get some decent BHP from it in the future?

*anyone else on here, stuck one in by themselves?
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:20 PM   #59
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saxo inlet is the same as a 106GTi.
It'll need the same wiring as any 16v into an 8v, but using the gti inlet and sensors and ecu.
the gti inlet is better for performance than the standard tu5jp4 inlet, it's setup for economy from the factory. plus i don't think it fits in the bay.
I think the mount will still catch on the head.
They're supposed to be 110bhp from pug as new.
A 4-2-1 might help that torque loss but you shouldn't really feel it in a 106 as they're so much lighter than a 206/207/307 etc.
Sandy's doing a build with one of these I think. Ask him what it's like to tune and how cost effective it is.

I'd love to know what you can get out of these as in standard form, in a factory setup, they're awful. You have to screw the nuts off them to get them to go. And then they guzzle juice. Avg is about 25-30 mpg in a 206.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:49 PM   #60
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engine mount still needs modified

the torque dip is a charactaristic of the engine apparantly, and the graph is showing power and torque at the wheels, not at the fly.

cams are milder than in the j4 engine, hence why it doesnt make its power higher up the revs, altho i believe the torque comes on lower down.

mine gets over 40 mpg on run nae bother.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:22 PM   #61
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hey i posted to get some help to do with a tu5jp4 head, i want to put one on my old 8v 1.6 tu block which is identical apart from there is a roller bearing on the 16v engine but no thread to bolt one in on my 8v does anyone know how i can get round this?
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:31 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen O View Post
C2 gt/vtr also has plastic inlet manifold whereas Vts has cast metal inlet. Ala 1.3 Rallye! Ive had a C2 Gt i to be honest it was a dissapoinment for 110 Bhp. But im sure like you guy's say there shoild be more power there for the taking!
drove a vts c2 the other day.. was dissapointed with that... only good thing to say about it was good brakes... must be heavy or something cus it just dont wanna go no where.. ive driven quicker vans to be honest lol

question: if u cam the tu5jp4 from a 206 (110bhp etc), what sort of hp you roughly lookin at.. without havin to change pistons, raceland induction, 4.2.1 zorst with pugsport grp n..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80wya View Post
question: If U Cam The Tu5jp4 From A 206 (110bhp Etc), What Sort Of Hp You Roughly Lookin At.. Without Havin To Change Pistons, Raceland Induction, 4.2.1 Zorst With Pugsport Grp N..???
Bump!

Last edited by 80WYA; 03-08-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:41 AM   #63
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if you put the gti cams inthe 110bhp motor it gives you an extra 10bhp ish, mine with a raceland manifold and std engine made 135, then 145 with the gti cams, remap wil get it more power, did 45mpg on the motorway with a xsi box,
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:59 PM   #64
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nice, newmans ph4 with mappable ignition it is then!
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyeNLD View Post
aha, I will be looking for a set of C2 VTS cams then
try the larger c2 vts inlet too ( the ally one)
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Old 13-08-2008, 10:39 AM   #66
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There are an awfull lot of presumptions in this thread. Alot of things which aern't correct either. The only people to have successfully run the JP4 block have done the following as far as i'm aware.

Swap to GTI/VTS inlet manifold and sensors (Head needs drilling and tapping)
Use the complete GTI/VTS wiring loom
Swap the JP4 cams to the VTS/GTI items
Run on the GTI/VTS management.

Different years of JP4 engines may require the oil filter to be relocated iirc
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Old 13-08-2008, 02:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L15TA J View Post
There are an awfull lot of presumptions in this thread. Alot of things which aern't correct either. The only people to have successfully run the JP4 block have done the following as far as i'm aware.

Swap to GTI/VTS inlet manifold and sensors (Head needs drilling and tapping)
Use the complete GTI/VTS wiring loom
Swap the JP4 cams to the VTS/GTI items
Run on the GTI/VTS management.

Different years of JP4 engines may require the oil filter to be relocated iirc
Some of the 206 engines also have an engine mount on the head rather than the rear of the block. You also need to use the J4 valve springs and lifters as the JP4 one's aren't designed for the higher lift of the J4 cams.
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Old 31-08-2008, 07:20 PM   #68
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is this TU5JP4 engine any 206 16v engine?? alot of people selling them say the code is nfu???
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Old 31-08-2008, 07:33 PM   #69
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NFU is the same thing IIRC
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Old 31-08-2008, 07:54 PM   #70
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nice one thanks what does IIRC stand for?? cheers lee
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Old 31-08-2008, 08:43 PM   #71
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I have recently done the tu5jp4 conversion. Good tips from hansthebear



Its still not running right though, going to buy a timing gun I think to double check the timing. Havent driven it yet

Last edited by Spudley84; 31-08-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 29-01-2009, 10:53 PM   #72
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So from reading this and other posts in the forum it works out that the best setup is:

206 TU5JP4 engine (pref after 2004?)
Running 106 GTi ecu, loom, inlet, exhaust manifold and cams?

Questions:

What work is involved? Can anyone confirm whether the head needs to be drilled n tapped to accept the 106 gti inlet?

Would a Raceland 4-2-1 designed for the 106 GTi engine, fit onto the 206 engine without any modifications? (other than replacing the oil sump for the 106 item???)

Would I have to swap over all the sensors from the 106 gti block into the 206 item?

Any more knowledge on this conversion please help
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Old 29-01-2009, 11:04 PM   #73
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Yes the tu5jp4 head does have to be drilled an tapped. That was easy tbh. Il send you some pics if you like.

Yes a supersprint/raceland manifold will fit the tu5jp4 sump, BUT you have to grind the manifold hanger bracket off. Mine fits fine an I've been driving it for 6 months. No problems!

Yes - you swap all the sensors over, run the gti loom an management.

You also swap the cambelt covers an bottom pulley etc
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Old 30-01-2009, 10:38 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudley84 View Post
Yes the tu5jp4 head does have to be drilled an tapped. That was easy tbh. Il send you some pics if you like.

Yes a supersprint/raceland manifold will fit the tu5jp4 sump, BUT you have to grind the manifold hanger bracket off. Mine fits fine an I've been driving it for 6 months. No problems!

Yes - you swap all the sensors over, run the gti loom an management.

You also swap the cambelt covers an bottom pulley etc
Can you send me some pictures how it's been drilled and tapped please?
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Old 31-01-2009, 12:12 AM   #75
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I have done this conversion the other day using spudleys guide (cheers spudley). Its very easy, just be carefull drilling the outermost holes in the head as they are very close to the original holes(hope that makes sense).
I used the jp4 bottom pulley, just utilising 5 of the 6 ribs though.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:58 PM   #76
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I need some help with one of these in my Rallye.
It's the full 2004 206 XSI engine (tu5jp4?) that's been dropped in.
It' run's ok but there's a mega vibration through the whole car - and being a noob am not sure where to start looking - could do with some advise.
I presume it's engine mountings???
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:04 PM   #77
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Hey i have a question,

I want to put a TU5JP4 Engine in a 106 rallye S2, what engine mount do i need on the left side (where the ecu is).

Ik thougt that he mounting on the engine is in de middel in stead of the back.
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #78
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You will need tu5j4 engine mount and bracket that bolts onto the block.
__________________
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/fluiddynamicsmotorsport?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Quality AN Fittings for Fuel/Oil.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:17 PM   #79
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Ok and that i can place on the back of the engine ?
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:09 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Sonny Snepvangers View Post
Ok and that i can place on the back of the engine ?

Yes you can!
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #81
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Thanks is it treu that i must replase the cambelt cover for a J4 one ?
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Old 26-05-2010, 04:52 PM   #82
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I run a Citroen C2R2 rally car so I now know quite a bit about the TU5JP4 engine now:

I can tell you that the C2VTS inlet plenum chamber is made of alloy and much better than the plastic one from the C2GT or VTR. I'm not sure if its just this or plus slightly different camshafts that make the VTS an extra 15Bhp over the GT & VTR. The C2R2 rally car uses the VTS alloy inlet plenum in preference to the GT one.

As they use a "Fly by wire" throttle body, you would need to fit a Saxo VTS cable throttle body on an alloy adaptor plate. (I have done this myself on another TU5JP4 engine and it works fine).

The C2R2 produces 185Bhp on the VTS plenum chamber, it has forged high compression pistons, standard rods and crank, special Citroen motorsportsport cams with solid lifters & shims, vernier timing wheels and mild head porting plus a very nice 4:2:1 exhaust manifold in stainless steel. It runs on a Magnetti Marelli ecu and retains the fly by wire throttle control.

hope this helps,

Martin
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Old 14-04-2014, 10:33 PM   #83
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Hi just after some general info on this conversion thanks,

I've just got a JP4 for my Rallye. Its already running a tried J4. Now I'm going strip and swap lifters over and put the standard J4 cams in it. My J4 has got Kent PT50's in, Anoo they are only very slightly harsher than standard J4 ones but I'm obviously worried about the the valve to piston contact?

I was also wondering how people got around running harsh cams in a JP4? Do they notch the pistons etc?

Another thing that crossed my mind was using a set of TU5JP4S cams? Surely someone has gone down this route also?


Thanks Dan

Last edited by dan_87; 14-04-2014 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 15-04-2014, 09:36 PM   #84
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Well if you want to try your pt50 cams your going to have to take the head off to change the jp4 springs to j4 ones so you can measure to see if they'll fit then. I'd do it the easy way & unbolt the head, set the crank at tdc, put blue tack on cylinder 1 & 4 then turn the inlet cam in the head & see how much room you have. The jp4 pistons are domed were as j4 ones are flat, jp4 has a slightly higher CR. I'm sure pt50's should fit as I know people have got away with 708's but there isn't ANY room to swing them or set them advanced, infact I doubt you'd be able to time 708's up properly. Only 1 way to find out if yours fit.

It'll be a easy straight swap if you've already got a j4 anyway so easy done. C2 vts cams are good for 125bhp with the alloy inlet that is, the gti cams would probably be a better choice. You also have to change to the j4 cambelt setup, easily done, the jp4 tensioner is a crappy self tensioning one so the j4 is more reliable, especially at high rpm.

Chris
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Old 18-04-2014, 08:44 AM   #85
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Thanks for the reply. I'm going over to strip it down today. My only issue is the PT50's are in my J4 still and i use that daily. I'm just buy some J4 valve springs to fit to the JP4 head (off ebay or if someone has some lying around?) Then maybe fit my PT50's at a later date.

I'll be fitting a new J4 cambelt kit also. I presume i'll need to buy a new bolt that goes into the block that the tensioner fits on?

Cheers
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Old 18-04-2014, 05:28 PM   #86
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You can't really do it like that as you need the head off the jp4 to put the PT50's in to see if they'll clash with the pistons, it'll only take a weekend if you know what your doing. Take the j4 out, remove the cams/springs & retainers, the sump, the inlet, swap all sensors over, make a inlet template & drill the jp4 head(make sure you take your time & get it spot on!!) the tensioner setup & cam-belt covers. Take the head off the jp4 & put the j4 springs in, new steam seals etc then put the cams in & new gasket on the block with blue tack on cylinder 1 & 4, then rest the head on the block without bolting it down properly of course, then swing both cams 360 degree's, obviously with the belt off & being super carefull when the valves extend towards the pistons, then you'll be able to see if they fit by the marks on the blue tack. You want at least 1mm of room, 1.5mm would be perfect, Simple.

With the tensioner bolt you can get it out with a pipe wrench, or buy a new one for a few quid, Citroen sell them as the converted the C2R2 to the j4 setup too, along with the S1600's also.

You'd have to take a few days off to make sure the engine swap can go as smoothly as possible anyway, what I've mentioned is a day, maybe 2 days work, just depends how quick/mechanically minded you are. I wouldn't put the jp4 in just to change cam's at a later date as you'll only have to buy a new gasket/belt & head bolts again so save yourself 200 & get it all done together mate. I've seen these produce 140bhp with j4 cams & springs & breathing mods so you could get upto 150bhp with these & a decent manifold/induction. You'll defiantly feel the jp4's power lower down than you can in the j4, both very good engine just the jp4 is smoother IMO.

Chris

Oh also the oil return, you need to buy a new oil filter bolt/attachment so you can use a j4 oil filter(J4 manifold won't fit around the jp4 one & the jp4 manifold is too long & it'll scrape on the floor if you went over any type of bump). Then there's a hole for the oil return that need drilling/tapping when you have the sump off so you can put a rag in to catch the swarf, easy job TBH but it needs doing or it'll piss oil everywhere. Think it's M10 it needs tapping to then a decent bolt & copper washer will do the job!

Last edited by chrisjp4; 18-04-2014 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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