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Suspension, Handling & Brakes Suspension set ups, uprated brakes

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Old 07-05-2007, 05:15 PM   #1
sandy309
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Torsion bar lowering guide....

Here's a link to download my revised, 106 specific lowering guide:

http://www.106rallye.co.uk/members/d...6 specific.doc

Right click save as please.

For personal use only, I don't permit copying, sharing, selling on etc.

Sandy Brown 2007
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Old 07-05-2007, 05:48 PM   #2
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Thats a great guide sandy but you have forgoten one very important stage and thats to re set the bias valve if its a model fitted with one and you dont adjust it your car will be a accident waiting to happen.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_mini View Post
Thats a great guide sandy but you have forgoten one very important stage and thats to re set the bias valve if its a model fitted with one and you dont adjust it your car will be a accident waiting to happen.
I prescribe maintaining the front-rear attitude, which should keep the bias correct. I've not yet done a 106 with a height related bias valve, feel free to write an add on.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:15 PM   #4
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On most models with rear disks (unsure if rallye have the valve) they have an adjustable valve that senses when theres of weight in the rear of the car via a spring and lever and adjusts the pressure to the rear brake to compensate for the load. If not adjusted you end up with loads or rear bias and no weight in the rear hence accident waiting to happen.

(sorry if it sounded like i was having a pop i wasnt)

Cheers Dan
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:25 PM   #5
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I've done alot of 106's (with and without ABS), often driven them hard too and not had a problem yet with brake bias? ABS cars are listed with them, but I haven't had an issue with it yet. It's probably only an issue with serious lowering, which I never recommend.

It's only a guide to offer some hints and tips to the process, it's up to you to ensure you do it properly and safely.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:42 PM   #6
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I've extended the disclaimer.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:45 PM   #7
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Thats true 30-40mm you prob wont notice it but some times i get people "want it as low as it can go looks wicked like that and handles like its on rails init" so then it does cause problems. If you look on the pass side above the shock just wind out the bolt from the spring on the lever. (hold spring with mole grips and wind out with 10mm ratchet spanner)
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:03 PM   #8
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very good sandy
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:32 PM   #9
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Nice guide, i agree with the bias valve though any more than 30mm seems to affect it...

Mines lowered 20mm unaffected really if you get people to sit in the boot you can see how far it goes down before it comed into play and its really easy to adjust.
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:55 PM   #10
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Additional detail on finding the right spline, mainly for De@no's benefit, because his PM box IS FULL!!

You have to lie on the floor with one hand underneath the car, supporting the weight of the bar when it tries to fall out of the far side, and the other hand on the outside end of the bar, to push it in. If you've already cleaned the splines on the bar and greased them lightly proceed.....
With the arm at the right height, as explained in the text; try and push the bar into place by hand. If it doesn't go in, the splines aren't lined up (most likely on the first try). Then pull the bar out slightly turn slightly (either way) and try another spline. It might go in one side but not the other. When you find the right spline, both ends slide in in one go. Don't force it, that'll give you a wrong setting. You have to "feel" the right spline, there will only be one!

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Old 03-07-2007, 11:09 PM   #11
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Nice one Sandy
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Old 16-07-2007, 11:09 AM   #12
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I lowered my Saxo Vts using this guide over the weekend and it really did help me out!!! I wasn't going to attempt lowering my torsion bars myself until i found this guide but i was brave and wasn't as hard as first antisipated.

Top guide Sandy

(And with your permission i would like to put this guide on Sax-p with your authorisation)
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Old 16-07-2007, 06:58 PM   #13
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Thanks, I'm glad it helped, that's what it's all about.

PM me your email.
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Old 18-07-2007, 08:51 PM   #14
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That is a great guide but I have a question...

Are there four eccentric washers in total or just on the outer part of the torsion bars?
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Old 18-07-2007, 11:36 PM   #15
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Old 21-07-2007, 07:47 AM   #16
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ive got a little question about this bias valve.

if disconnected mine as its slammed on its ringpeice and its astough the handbrake was on sometimes.

as ive got the rear beam off and im fittng new brake lines, i may aswell just run them direct from the MC to each flexi? will be ok wont it?
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Old 21-07-2007, 09:14 AM   #17
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You need to use an aftermarket bia valve else you'll swap ends every time you brake.
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Old 16-03-2008, 08:47 PM   #18
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link now fixed and thread stickied
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:39 PM   #19
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Any particular reason you measure the shock length as your guide instead of vertical height from the underside of the bodyshell down to a lump that sticks out on the back of the hub IIRC?
I've done a few this way.
Saves having to work out ratio changes of shock distance to actual amount lowered.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:02 AM   #20
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The axle's more precisely made than the bodywork.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:29 AM   #21
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LOL there is that I guess, but you are measuring a before and after so shouldn't really matter what the measurements you take before are, as long as the after ones are moved the same amount

Last edited by Fuzz; 02-04-2008 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:32 PM   #22
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I quite agree, but that assumes it was right to start with, which often isn't the case on cars that have been modified already. Both methods are valid, I just feel more confident of the repeatability and precision of measuring the damper length. You can also do it off the car if the axle is removed for whatever reason.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:36 PM   #23
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Fair point.
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Old 25-04-2008, 02:00 PM   #24
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Hi Sandy, question: you described above that you shouldn't force the bars in. I did that a little bit I think ( would a hammer qualify? :-P) Could the result be that L and R are not the same height? Cause they are now approx 2 cm off... Thanks!
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Old 25-04-2008, 02:27 PM   #25
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Hiya,more than likely, you need to find the "natural" fit. It should be less than 10mm difference, side to side.
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:40 AM   #26
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is it easier to lower the beam on or off the car????
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Old 13-05-2008, 08:24 PM   #27
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Arguably off the car. But taking it off solely to do that seems extreme.
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Old 13-05-2008, 09:10 PM   #28
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Sandy do you have a measurement using your method for standard ride height. My cars been lowered and want to return it to normal, its 11" shock length bolt to bolt at the mo?
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Old 14-05-2008, 06:57 AM   #29
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I've got the XSi measurement written down somewhere, I'll try and post it later.
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Old 18-05-2008, 09:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
Sandy do you have a measurement using your method for standard ride height. My cars been lowered and want to return it to normal, its 11" shock length bolt to bolt at the mo?
This is not what you asked but, standard S2 hub center - fender distance is:

35.0cm front
35.5cm rear

(car's standing on it's wheels)
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Old 18-05-2008, 01:51 PM   #31
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the guide above didnt have pics?? any reason for this?
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Old 18-05-2008, 06:51 PM   #32
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Lifting the arse end of my Car!!

Hi

Just a quick one hopefully!

I got my car lowered by a garage ages ago and they lowered the back to much! This garage has now gone under so I canít go back to get it lifted!

After reading this guide I recon I might give it a shot myself!

So here goes....

If I want to higher my car from what it is now (to low!) I would need to measure what the distance is currently at unlaiden between the two bolts on the shocks, then make a dummy shock at a HIGHER measurement to the measurement??

So say if the distance is now 150mm I would need to make the dummy shock 200mm? (Measurements hypothetical values).

I recon the back actually needs lifting by about 20mm to make it look and handle correctly. I.e. a nice bit of lift of over steer.

Cheers
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Old 18-05-2008, 09:44 PM   #33
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There should be pics in the guide, can one of the site bods check it?

To raise the car, use the same rule backwards. Increase the damper dummy length by 1/2.5 (0.4x) the ride height change required, so for a 25mm lift, 26 x 0.4 = 10mm increase in dummy damper length.
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Old 30-07-2008, 10:40 PM   #34
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sandy has anyone told you, you are a genius! lol top guide. rising the saxo up this weekend! i have massive bars and thus need next to no negative travel what is the best way to know how much to raise it? hit and miss with the notch rule?
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Old 30-07-2008, 11:05 PM   #35
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measure it at the hub centre, if you jack it up or down 20mm then you will lower or raise it 20mm respectively
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:51 AM   #36
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With new or non standard bars, fit loosely at an estimated setting and drop the car back onto it's wheels, then correct the height from there.
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:10 AM   #37
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sandy, do you know off the top of your head, approximate standard damper hole centres for an s2 rallye?
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Old 30-09-2008, 05:48 PM   #38
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does anyone know this (standard damper hole dimensions) as I could also do with finding out, thanks!
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Old 27-11-2008, 10:53 AM   #39
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Great quide Sandy. Just one question: should there be left a 1mm between the ARB endplate and the arm as shown in http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair.../b3bg0bk3.htm?
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Old 27-11-2008, 06:50 PM   #40
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Yes, that's right (cough).
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:27 PM   #41
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I was quoted £100 by a garage to fit my GTi springs and dampers on the front and lower the back accordingly (to my 1.1) now i've read ur guide sandy and im afraid i dont acctually no half the stuff u mention so i think it might be best to go to the garage?
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Old 14-01-2011, 02:59 PM   #42
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Does someone not make a pair of dummy dampers? would just need to have a couple of rose joints and a threadded bar I suppose.
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Old 14-01-2011, 05:07 PM   #43
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You only need to make one and its easier and cheaper than usin rose links too
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Old 23-08-2011, 10:20 PM   #44
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I know that this is an ages old thread, but does anyone know the standard distance between damper bolt holes measurement? (S1 rallye)
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Old 28-11-2011, 09:17 PM   #45
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Indeed it is.. but given my current situation with my car (2003 S2 Rallye 16V 120HP), I need your advice desperately!

I recently bought the Routiere suspension KIT from Peugeot Sport (codes: R17007-00, 617005-00 and R17008-00). Unfortunately I had it fitted at a garage where the mechanic did a piss-poor job on installing the suspension. The results were:

1) Height is not properly adjusted. The car is horizontally level - and as far as I know - it shouldn't be. I remember that the car's stock configuration was that the front is lower than the rear.

2) Brake bias is not adjusted properly. There is way too much bias at the rear and as a result I spinned off once already whilst under a heavy breaking incident. I was lucky it didn't go any worse.

3) There is a strange metallic noise when the car runs over bumps - even at the slightest of road anomalies. I am aware that my new suspension is stiffer compared to the stock one, but I am sure this ain't right. I also had PowerFlex mounts throughout the entire suspension - but that alone shouldn't cause such a noise. Still, sounds as if something is out of place / not properly fitted. That noise is definitely coming from the rear axle.

From all three above, I mostly need your advice regarding (1) - i.e. proper height of the rear. Problem is that the mechanic didn't keep any record of how much the car was lowered / or what original heights were. I have now found a decent garage and people capable of readjusting the suspension properly (they only work on 106's). They looked at it and they told me that the front height is ideal, but the rear needs to be lifted up a bit in order for the car to be balanced. This is where I would like to have your advice as well. Assuming that the car is lowered by 20mm at the front (due to the Eibach springs) by how many mm would the rear needed to be? Based upon the specs of this particular KIT, what the proper heights should be i.e. front/rear - so I can request that they adjust the suspension accordingly?

My plan is - after the front/rear height is properly adjusted and done, I will ask them to have the bias properly adjusted as well. And hope that somewhere along the way, they will discover what's causing that strange metallic noise coming from the rear axle.

Please, give me your thoughts...

Cheers
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Old 28-11-2011, 09:57 PM   #46
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1) Does it matter for a track car? Do you carry many people?

2) You should be able to adjust how much the compensator changes, it's next to the exhaust, wind the screw/bolt into the spring to increase iirc (have a look at Cris_B's 8v blog).

3) That sounds like the ARB being loose - if the ends aren't tight enough it will squeak/ping. Tighten the bolts/put some Loctite on it.
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Old 29-11-2011, 12:01 AM   #47
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if the arb plates do come loose again its very likely that the trailing arm bearings are worn out.
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Old 29-11-2011, 05:03 PM   #48
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Cheers for responding guys - much appreciated!

1) It's not a track day car as such ... it's an everyday-use car That's an entry level suspension from PS as far as I know - that's why I chosed it. Still - I d like to have it adjust it properly. I have myself noticed the difference - but oversteers quite easily as it is. Shouldn't be that much fun...

2) Adjusting the conpensator is something I d leave for the mechanic. I m not too tech savvy and very likely to ruin things even further...

3) I ll have them check on the ARB. Just out of interest what type of Loctite adhensive you had in mind?

Regarding (1) I mailed PS regarding the right heights for the suspension .. but no luck with that. Surely there must be an ideal front/rear height ratio that is the ideal working range for every suspension (not just the ones from PS)
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:49 PM   #49
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I am still stuck as to what the proper heights (front/rear) should be. Found something that might help:

Code:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8GN3SW5J
passw: 106rallyeforum
So according to files 3&4 - what the appropriate H1(front) and H2(rear) heights are for this particular suspension? Does anyone have it properly installed?
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Old 17-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #50
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for people who used this method, what size dummy damper did you use, ive very over calculated not concentrating ha and lowered about 100mm when i only wanted 30-40mm? ps im running 23mm t/bars and 25mm arb. Looking for a rough measurement, ive worked out what i need now so just a tip
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