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Old 23-12-2010, 11:03 AM   #51
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A difference in weight not worth worring about really.
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Old 23-12-2010, 04:40 PM   #52
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I would change the 5th if your using it on the road lol

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Old 24-12-2010, 06:12 AM   #53
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It will be a trackday/comp car mainly, trailered to places, with the odd road blast as and when it is legal, will keep the 5th as it is for now, but there is always the option to swap
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Old 28-12-2010, 02:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxosteve View Post
Could you post the correct part number for the cable clutch arm BenM for the benefit if other forum users please.

Thanks for posting part numbers BenM.
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Old 28-12-2010, 06:25 PM   #55
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Spent yesterday afternoon attaching the box to my spare engine, and checking the driveshaft alinement with the intermediate bearing mount. After searching the tinternet and steves post earlier got a bit worried that it may not be the right one, as a tu 1.6 8v mount is mentioned and mine is from a tu 16v berlingo. I did make sure that both locating dowels were present in the back to ensure everything lined up with the holes in the block, and seemed to line up ok, with shafts turning. Any pointers if I have the right mount, as even though it may fit, doe not mean it is right, and I do not want to knacker my box and diff

Some photos.





Last edited by jools; 28-12-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 28-12-2010, 07:19 PM   #56
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Good progress

never realised the bellhousing and diff were slanted that far back on these boxes, not seen one out of a car like that.
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:56 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxosteve View Post
Thanks for posting part numbers BenM.
Steve sent me a PM earlier, as he's not paid his membership and has hit his 100 post limit




Quote:
Can you post this up in Jools thread about stripping BE box as my post limit has been reached!


'The correct Citroen part number for the Cable operated clutch fork is:

2117.58

The numbers are incorrect on the citroen part system, so when you order what you think is the cable arm (says 2117.66 which is incorrect) you end up with a hydraulicly operated arm.

Hope this helps people in future.'

Steve

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Old 06-01-2011, 05:51 PM   #58
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Hi Thanks for that.

In the photo I have the intermediate bearing carrier, do you think it is the right one? The ones in your photos had tu a stamped on it, where mine has TU5 BE, just not sure if they are the same, will try and find some part numbers to cross reference in citroen service box.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:33 PM   #59
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The one I had with TU-A on it was for an MA box in a 307 unfortunately, I haven't taken a pic of the mounting I got at the same time as the TU-BE4 picasso box.

I doubt you'd get the driveshaft into the diff with the incorrect mounting, certainly the one I had was miles off.

there does seem to be several part numbers for the TU-BE intermediate bearing carrier but I've yet to find any specific details but I think the angle of the bellhousing may differ as there are a few different part numbers for these though specific to each vehicle

this wouldn't affect the top mountings when in a 106/saxo, but may need a different length bottom fork/doglink.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:52 PM   #60
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If you do get a chance to get a picture of the mount you have got that would be very usefull.

I am looking into remaking the lower engine mount completly, not sure what is best as I already have the group a mounts I am keen to keep in part, may re-make the section that bolts to the diff housing and using the alloy pacer and bush, and make a shoter bottom fork.

On a slightly different topic, bought some nylon bar to turn into some dummy wheel bearings, which should make measuring driveshaft lengths easier.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:34 PM   #61
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Steve's new BE box mount. Bling!!!






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Old 06-01-2011, 08:35 PM   #62
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I have an idea about the intermediate bearing carrier going from what you mentioned about making the shafts properly equal length, only issue I can think of is getting the inner shaft made as that section is solid, actually shifting the bearing carrier section would be straightforward.

Will get a pic of the mount I have next time I get into the garage.
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:51 PM   #63
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Old 07-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #64
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I can see the advantage of equal length shafts, but think that the amount of fabrication work on a new bearing carrier required to bring it closer to the gearbox, and get it sport on, plus fabricating a new inner drive shaft section seems a lot of hastle for relativly little gain, over the two current options of using almost equal length shafts, or unequal length shafts like pug sport. Plus if it needs replacing is it easy to obtain at short notice, i.e. between events?

I do however like the shiny rear mount!
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:45 AM   #65
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The Peugeot Sport shafts are apparently known for introducing fairly hefty amounts of torque steer to the setup. I've no idea how true that is but a friends 16v'd S1 xsi with unequal length shafts also used to torque steer before he changed the driveshafts to a gti set.
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:56 AM   #66
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First time I drove a "Cup" set up, I was amazed how different it felt, more like an RS Turbo than a 106!
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:31 AM   #67
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I am also very much likeing Steves new "Bling" mount, some nice machining there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshpug View Post
'The correct Citroen part number for the Cable operated clutch fork is:

2117.58
I can confirm that (^^^) is the correct part number for the cable operated clutch arm for the BE4R gearbox.

Also the pivot ball to go with it is 2120.50 and the release bearing is 2041.A7 (a superseeded part and is cheep as chips )

Hope this helps people out a little
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:42 AM   #68
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Thanks for that Ben, shame citroen near me is closed this afternoon.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:55 PM   #69
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I take it you cant use the citroen numbers in pug?

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Old 08-01-2011, 09:08 PM   #70
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Haven't a clue, I suspect you can, however my local Peugeot has enough trouble coping with my obscure requests from various peugeots, let alone explaining the part I want comes from a citroen; the look on the guys face in Parts is always funny when he see's me coming through the door, with a very friendly, Now what? or your not going to have a chassis number are you!
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:54 AM   #71
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Peugeot/Citroen part numbers are the same.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:27 PM   #72
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as long as they use the same parts that is
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jools View Post
Hi Thanks for that.

In the photo I have the intermediate bearing carrier, do you think it is the right one? The ones in your photos had tu a stamped on it, where mine has TU5 BE, just not sure if they are the same, will try and find some part numbers to cross reference in citroen service box.

As Welsh says Jools, i dont think you'd even get the shaft in the box if it wasnt the correct housing. Looks the same as ATspeed has on their online shop: -

http://atspeedracing.co.uk/products/...roducts_id=264
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:54 PM   #74
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All the signs suggest it is the right one, so heres hoping.
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Old 23-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #75
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Spent the morning at workshop at work, and managed to get round to making a couple of 37mm id dummy bearings, they are nothing special, I am still trying to teach myself to use a lathe - and stilll trying to get to grips with tooling etc, then you use a different material it seems to behave differently.

Going to use these to help get the right length of driveshafts and hub spacing, as they are slightly over 37mm the hubs can be easily pushed on and taken off as needed when making measurements, rather than pushing the whole lot onto a bearig and finding it has to come be pressed off again, (without damaging the bearing).
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Old 23-01-2011, 04:53 PM   #76
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Checking online the bearing support is same part number for both the 8v and 16v engine.
Jools what you hoping to do about the clutch cable and mounts?

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Old 23-01-2011, 05:35 PM   #77
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The passenger side engine mount is still perplexing me, I will either have to work it out when the engine and box are in the car, or buy one ready made from somewhere.

The rear engine mount I will use a modified standard style set as I already have a grp A. Take the large metal bush holder (or length of steel tube the same diameter), and make a new bracket to attach to the BE box on the diff housing cover.

As for the clutch, hope I wake up one morning with the solution. Although I do have an old 106 XSi clutch cable I occasionally look at for inspiration.
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Old 23-01-2011, 10:30 PM   #78
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One BE4R i've fitted to my AX....

Made this bracket for mine...








Last edited by Benji; 23-01-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 24-01-2011, 07:15 AM   #79
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Old 24-01-2011, 07:22 AM   #80
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Cheers for the posting the photos ben, the rear gearbox mount is very similar to the one I have in mind. Interesting you have used the BE3 mount and welded in a new mounting tray. What are you doing for a clutch cable set up
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Old 25-01-2011, 12:14 PM   #81
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Had to use the BE3 style tray, which is all removable, as the AX gearbox mounting won't clear the box at all. So thought it best to just use a setup that already works on 306's.



I've already done a BE4R conversion on a 205 a few months back, replaced the clutch arm for the berlingo item along with the bracket from citroen. Can't remeber which cable as we just ordered a shit load from out suppliers then set back the ones which won't fit!

When the shell comes back from paint and the engine goes back in i'll let you know
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:22 PM   #82
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Picked up a clutch fork, clutch cable bracket and clutch bearing from Peugeot today, so convert the box to cable operation, so getting there slowly!
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Old 13-03-2011, 07:17 AM   #83
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Gearbox update- upper gearbox measurements needed

Quick update.

Slow progress at the moment as having no kitchen is higher priority!

I now have a couple of BE hubs from a Peugeot 306, bought a couple of complete front struts on ebay, and sold the bits I did not need and made my money back. Need to spend a little time measuring and comparing both MA and BE hubs, then I can work how to turn down the BE hubs to fit, and any spacers needed, although I am going to see if it is as good to space the brakes calliper back to bring it in line with the new disk position.

I have also sourced a couple of 106 struts which will be stripped and sent off to possibly GAZ for coilover conversion. I would love to go for something like AST, but my budget will not stretch that far.

Clutch cable sorted thanks to Ross Dagley.

The main problem now is the upper gearbox mount. I need to make my own, so any pointers as to the measurements between the two bolt holes on the gearbox, and the third bolthole taking the bolt to the engine mount rubber. Any help on this dimension would be much appreciated.
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Old 13-03-2011, 12:15 PM   #84
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Very interesting thread - one question i have is i was told by someone that 205 1.6 GTI driveshafts (with some modification) will fit the 106 hub as its a smaller shaft than the 1.9 205 shaft?

Can anyone confirm that this is nonsense?
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Old 19-03-2011, 01:27 PM   #85
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I not heard that one about the 1.6 gti shafts,

Had a bit of a brucy bonus today, as I have bought and broken so many gearboxs in recent months, I decided to weigh them in as scrap, 3 almost complete BE cases a damaged MA case, plus a dinged alloy wheel, and a few odds and ends netted me £30.00.

Still have 1/2 a case and diff housing as a spare, and a boxes of different gears that need sorting through.
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Old 19-03-2011, 06:05 PM   #86
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205 1.6 Gti shafts have the wrong outer CV spline count. They could be used but with a 22 spline outer shaft rather than a 34...
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Old 20-03-2011, 10:02 AM   #87
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1.6 205 CV's fit straight into the 106/Saxo hub flange (its the same part as base model 205's)

But I don't know if the lateral location of the gearbox in the shell is the same as it is in the 205, I don't think it is, though track width is pretty damn close at the front! 205 is 40mm wider at the back.

The outer CV of the 205 shafts are much like standard 106/saxo, not a removable full 6 ball CV, apart from the 1.9 which uses a proper removable CV with a larger Spline, appropriate hub flange and 82mm wheel bearing (same hub flange and bearing as most 306's 406's etc)

So they wont be any stronger than normal 106/saxo shafts unless you find some uprated ones with the removable CV's (pugsport, gripper etc)

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Old 15-04-2011, 03:23 PM   #88
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I think i've actually finished my conversion, well, it drive across the carpark anyway. still needs to be tested in anger.

Big thanks to Garry M for supplying the bottom engine mount, £65, absolute bargain :-)




All other bits for the torque link and lower selecor rod from ebay
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Old 15-04-2011, 03:38 PM   #89
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cheap as chips
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Old 15-04-2011, 03:43 PM   #90
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nice looking mount too.
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Old 16-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #91
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looks very nice!

Got my clutch cable sorted not thanks to Ross, still need to find a front end to dummy up various bits
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Old 19-04-2011, 06:29 AM   #92
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Hopefully will be getting a front end after Easter, went to a local scrap yard and they had just bought a tatty gti, with a mint ish front end -at least no damage or obvious accident repair. Getting that cut behind the a pillars. Decided to pay extra for the struts and wishbones to be left on as I need a couple of spare struts and it guarantees they cut behind the rear wishbone mount. Possibly paid a bit more than hoped, but at least I can save some diesel consistently driving round breakers looking for one. an get on with making mounts etc.

Just need to find a home for it, not sure my wife would appreciate in the garden and it will be too heavy to hide in the roof.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:24 PM   #93
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Picked up a gti front end this morning, wil try and get some piccies, the scrap yard said they were going to strip it and leave just the struts and wishbones, well as I guessed they just stopped at the big bits such as panels, engine, gearbox, driveshafts and power steering pump, and left everything else. A couple of hours left me a near clean shell all bar steering rack and suspension. Need to et the thing bak to the workshop to get thoes bits off, then think about making a stand for it. At least one step closer to getting bits made for the BE conversion
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #94
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Finished stripping the front end and I have started to cut it down to make it as small as possible so it will fit in the shed. The 306 hubs and 37mm bearing are in the hands of a local machine shop who are turning down the hubs to fit 37mm id bearings and working out the thickness of shims needed to keep the hub face at the same point as on the standard 106 setup. They are also going to be able to shorten the driveshafts as and when I get round to measuring them up.

I have also got the obligitory satchshift, waiting to go on the car once the box is ready.
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Old 18-05-2011, 12:46 PM   #95
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After years of issues with the MA box and countless event non finishes i actually finished my first sprint event at MIRA using the BE gearbox without an issue this weekend. I can't put into words how much i would recommend this conversion to anyone who is using a 106 or Saxo in competition and had issues. The other big plus point for me was the variation of ratio's and final drives available for the BE box, flat out in 5th gear in competition is a little strange.
I finished only half a second behind the Mi16'd 205's on Avon slicks and 40-50bhp more than me !!!
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Old 19-05-2011, 08:25 AM   #96
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Thatís an endorsements and a half! Makes me want to fit mine fitted asap. What ratios are you running?
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Old 19-05-2011, 09:57 AM   #97
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Currently running 2.92 - 1.85 - 1.41 - 1.15 - 0.95 with a Pugsport 5.3 FD and Quaife diff

Just on a side note as well, i am using the smaller splined shafts with the drivers shaft being a cut and shut item.
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Old 19-05-2011, 12:22 PM   #98
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5.3 final drive, I thought my 4.9 was going to be short, also the ratios are they 1st-5th from a 306 gti box?

Picked up my machined hubs today, the engineering shop worked out the shim thickness to maintain the hub face for the disc at the same point as the MA hub. I will post up dimensions soon.
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Old 19-05-2011, 12:58 PM   #99
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Yeah it does fly through the gears Jools You have got a few more ponies than me though so you should still rip through the 4.9 Fd

Gears are 1st and second from a 1600 205 Gti and 3rd, 4th and 5th from a Gti-6
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Last edited by Ben M; 19-05-2011 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 19-05-2011, 07:55 PM   #100
jools
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Picked up the machined BE hubs and shims today. The engineering company worked out to maintain the hub face/disc spacing after machining a 4mm shim would be needed.

I Fitted the machined BE hub and a standard BE driveshaft into an MA strut and 37mm dummy bearing and tightened the whole lot up, then hit upon a problem. The locking washer thing and r clip that keeps the BE driveshaft is about 1mm too far out.

Need to find out if there is another way of locking the hub nut?, failing that the shims need reducing 1mm, and see if that makes a difference.

Also to help people here are the updated costs.

Thought I would post up updated costs of the gearbox to date.

Gearbox costs.
Citroen berlingo box. New. £250 - ebay
Peugeot 205 gti box. £100
Recon Gripper Diff £480 (rebuilt by gripper with only the plates being reused)
Citroen dispatch box £70 - ebay
Rear driveshaft mount £25 - ebay
Driveshafts £140 - ebay - New genuine Peugeot
306 Hubs - £35.00 (bought as complete struts)
Clutch cable - £45.00
clutch arm, cable bracket and clutch bearing - £35.00
Hub machining - £50.00
37mm bearings - £50.00
Peugeot 106 front end - £140.00
BE gearbox and rear engine mount - £60.00
Total - £1480

Weighing in 205 and dispatch boxes - £10.00
Berlingo cwp sale - £50.00
306 strut sales (less hubs) - £40.00
205 cwp - £40.00
Total - £140.00

Total £1,340

Left to spend -fitting.
Altering driveshafts £100 (will have to see if the 1800 petrol shaft fits)


Total costs est £1500.00, less the sale of My 106 Rallye box, standard driveshafts (50k), and parts from a stripped 106 front end (bare struts, wishbones and gti arb)

Last edited by jools; 05-06-2011 at 06:42 AM. Reason: more information
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