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Old 04-03-2008, 08:13 PM   #1
dynofiend
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Want to know why power boost valves, and 'power chips' from ebay dont work?

This is an example of part of an engine map of an s1 rallye. It is the part of the ECUs program that determines the amount of fuel that should be injected at certain rpms, and under different load (vaccum or technicaly airflow) conditions.

See how its complex, convoluted and carefully calculated? Well thats why simply increasing the fuel pressure, or trying to get the engine to inject more fuel is a stupid idea



And here is a 3d flow chart of ECU software, it shows some of the feedback loops the ECU uses to work out what is going on, and what to do. As you can see, it is not the kind of thing that reacts well to just sticking a resistor somewhere, or bunging a bigger set of injectors or higher fuel pressure reg in the mix


Last edited by dynofiend; 07-03-2008 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #2
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Make this a sticky lol. End these sorts of enquiries.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:32 PM   #3
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stuck and very well put Dynofiend
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:20 PM   #4
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This needs to be a sticky on 106 owners lol
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:31 PM   #5
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cool something i actualy understand! well the first picture anyways.

everyone can just refer back to this sticky when the topic crops up.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:43 PM   #6
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Anyone is more than welcome to post it up on 106oc, i cant be arsed myself
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:18 PM   #7
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Would I be right in figuring that the fuelling roughly follows the torque profile, as opposed to bHP?

Interesting stuff.
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Old 05-03-2008, 09:34 PM   #8
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no idea mate, makes sense that it would though as the bhp is rpm related whereas injector pulse widths wouldnt be, just their frequency would be increased. Who knows, im no expert
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynofiend View Post
This is an example of part of an engine map of an s1 rallye. It is the part of the ECUs program that determines the amount of fuel that should be injected at certain rpms, and under different load (vaccum or technicaly airflow) conditions.

See how its complex, convoluted and carefully calculated? Well thats why simply increasing the fuel pressure, or trying to get the engine to inject more fuel is a stupid idea

Wheres this come from Dyno? Is it actually from an S1? looks very differnet / Wrong to the one i pulled out my ecu
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom J View Post
Would I be right in figuring that the fuelling roughly follows the torque profile, as opposed to bHP?

Interesting stuff.
When mapped accurately, the fuel curve usually roughly reflects the torque curve through the mid range. Lower down and higher up it doesn't as much though, because there's more "wasted" fuel outside the engine's efficient operating range.
Altering the fuel curve beyond optimum won't improve the torque though!
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:11 AM   #11
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That makes sense Sandy, every day's a school day!

If you're saying the engine is most efficient at around 5k rpm, I shall keep using it there and that's good for me!
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:31 AM   #12
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I ran an FSE for a year and had the car rolling roaded and was losing about 4bhp top end and through the range compared to similar spec cars on the same day. AFR probe was saying 12:1 or thereabouts as far as I recall...
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom J View Post
That makes sense Sandy, every day's a school day!

If you're saying the engine is most efficient at around 5k rpm, I shall keep using it there and that's good for me!
It's burning most efficiently around peak torque, but that has to be scaled against friction and other losses. The net result is usually highest specific efficiency (power vs fuel used) at around 2500-3500rpm generally.
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:03 AM   #14
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what a load of rubbish, my power boost valve gave me 20bhp, and my super chip gave me 42bhp.....its rampant now butt.....lol
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseidboy View Post
Wheres this come from Dyno? Is it actually from an S1? looks very differnet / Wrong to the one i pulled out my ecu
It was from a mate, but all i asked him for was a graph with something to do with fuelling in it, and he did it in a bit of a rush, so its possible that its from another car or part of the file. Anyway, it looks pretty and illustrates the point i was making nicely
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #16
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Want more bhp? Then take your car to someone who knows what they are doing! :P This thread is a good sticky, save alot of pointless questions being asked! Nice one.
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